Edmund PURCELL / Mary RYAN Upperchurch / Drombane / Thurles

Upperchurch Catholic parish covered three civil parishes, Upperchurch, Templebeg and Moyaliff, all adjacent. There is a townland named Drumbane in one of these parishes - i.e. Moyaliff. The Catholic parish of Upperchurch is sometimes referred to as 'Upperchurch and Drumbane', since one of the chapels for the parish was located in Drumbane village.

Your dates however are a little too early for the records for the parish which are available back to abt 1829 for baptisms and marriages. This is not unusual as the average starting date for records in rural parishes is about 1830. Transcripts of records for this parish are included on RootsIreland, which is a pay-website. Given the timeline, it's possible that there may be records of baptism for additional children to Edmund and Mary after 1829, and before they left for England and Australia..

p.s. Dumbane is sometimes listed as 'Drombane'

Thank you for advice Shane.

Thank you Shane. Let us know if you learn anything new sturner!

Best wishes
Clare Doyle
Genealogy Support

Hi Shirley, I have family from that area who may be related. I have Ellen Purcell who married Cornelius Ryan in Upperchurch in 1838. They had one daughter Judy before coming to Australia on the Glenswilly on the same date as your ancestors. I wonder if they could be related? I'm still trying to track down Ellen's birth records. Kate

Hi Kate and  Sturner.  I know a family from that area whose grandfather was an Edmond Purcell aged 50 in the 1911 census.

  The purcells were very plentiful in the parishes of Drumbane and Upperchurch. 

Will try and find out more if you would like me to.

Christina.

Dear Kate and Christina,
 

Very good to hear from you both. I reached a stalemate in my Purcell family history research around 2014/2015. I even advertised in the Tipperary Star (weekly regional newspaper) in the Letters to the Editor column. Unfortunately my phone number rather than my email address was published so I received minimal response. However, there were two people who contacted me. One was Jim Shanahan (he said his mother was a Purcell  and he grew up in Upperchurch). He now lives in Nenagh with his wife and child. The other was Chris (nee Purcell), who lives in Melbourne. Her sister Josephine was visiting from Ireland and had passed on my Tipperary Star letter to the editor. I met both sisters and their widowed sister-in-law, Bridget. From recollection the sisters also grew up in Upperchurch. They said their deceased brother was the family historian and probably could have assisted me but they themselves were not able to do so. 

In May 2015, Kerry, a second cousin (found on the internet and whose maiden name was Purcell) living in NSW went over to Ireland with her husband. She reported: 

"I have to say that I am a bit upset. Spent two days searching EVERYTHING but had no luck. All I can come up with is that our Purcell line died out here in Ireland when our Edward and Mary came to Australia. Had a wonderful time and met some lovely people who all wanted to claim us (especially after they read your story in the paper). Everyone kept calling me Shirley!! Jane and James were lovely and we had lunch at their house. James took me around and introduced me to any other strain of Purcell he could find. I tried to bribe the parish priest but the earliest records for births for a Purcell is in 1830.......there were no records kept for deaths until a lot later and when the parish priest at that time died his records were thrown out by his housekeeper. I also spent a day in the Dublin Archives without any success......you and I know more than the people there. They just kept telling me that there were no records for that period."

It has occurred to me that maybe I could go through the 11 March 1841 Glenswilly passenger list and try to cross reference/research the other passengers from the Thurles Tipperary area…a daunting task, especially as I have had little or no time to follow this up. Moreover, my laptop was stolen from my house in Feb this year (now replaced) which has set me back in terms of accessing databases and computer stored files.

"Ellen" appears as a family name in my Purcell family tree. ELLEN PURCELL (b. 1863, registered Raymond Terrace, New South Wales) was a granddaughter of Edmund/Edmond PURCELL (c1787-1861). My grandmother’s older sister was named "Mary Ellen" (b. 11 Mar 1880 in Spring Creek, Goonoo Goonoo, NSW). I think I have seen Ellens in other branches of the family also. Edmund’s daughter, Mary, married an ex-convict in Sydney in 1842. His name was Cook JACKSON and apparently had served his time in the Lower Hunter area. Subsequently the PURCELLs, their daughter and her new husband relocated to the Duckenfield/Duck Holes/Millers Forest, Lower Hunter River region. In the latter part of the 1870s the PURCELLs were granted land just out of Werris Creek (at Warrigundi aka Terrible Vale) on the Liverpool Plains NSW. 

I believe both children of Edmund PURCELL and Mary RYAN were born in Drombane (Mary c1825 and Edmund c1827).

 Upperchurch 1829 Tithe Listings for PURCELL
• PURCELL Edmond Townland: Ballyboy, Parish: Upperchurch, Templebeg
• PURCELL Edmond Townland: Cappaghnaleigh, Parish: Upperchurch, Templebeg
Cappaghnaleigh Townland was renamed in 1838 to Cappanaleigh.
Locals who are descended from the original named Townland will still refer to the area as it was originally named.
  
Edward and Mary PURCELL are listed on the Griffiths Valuation for 1851 as tenants
• Landlord: Andrew Ryan, Location: Tipperary, North Riding, Barony: Kilnamanagh, Upper, Union: Thurles, Parish: Upperchurch, Townland: Gortkelly
This Griffiths Valuation is speculative…(I read somewhere that the valuations began in the 1830s but weren’t completed/published until 1851…see Mary Guinean Darmody’s comment below).

I’ve also contacted Tipperary Family History Research Centre (Archdiocese of Cashel & Emly, The Excel Heritage Centre, Mitchell Street, Tipperary Town) but without results (cost €33!), the Upperchurch Drombane Community Association and Mary Guinean Darmody at Tipperary Studies, The Source, Cathedral Street, Churls, Co. Tipperary (studies@tipperarylibraries.ie). Mary wrote:

"To be totally honest, you have been very lucky to find so much on your ancestors.
 
The church records for Upperchurch Drombane  are held by Tipperary Family History Research Centre, Tipperary town and will carry out family research on a fee paying basis.  However, looking at the dates for the individual parishes, it seems that the earliest records for Upperchurch date from 1829.   Copies of the microfilms of these church are going to become available through the National Library of Ireland website in July.  
You have already exhausted the Tithe Applotment and Griffiths Valuation.  The whole of Ireland was surveyed by Griffiths surveyors over a period of years and Tipperary dates from 1848- 1851. 
Looking at the townlands that you mention in Griffiths valuation and the Tithe Applotment, these are all adjacent to each other as you can check online www.osi.ie
 
 Another unique manuscript resource that we hold are the Poor Law Rate Books and I have checked those for Gortkelly between  approximately 1845 to 1882, we have some volumes but certainly not a volume per year
 
Up to and including 1862
 
Edmond Purcell holds just over 47 acres
Richard Purcell holds just over 32 acres.
 
In 1868 Edmond remains as above and Michael Purcell replaces Richard in teh holding with 32 acres.
 
By 1874 Edmund Purcell (pat) has 60 acres and Michael remains as above.
Edward Purcell (Richard) has just over over acres
 
The last volume I checked was 1882  and this was the same as teh volume for 1874."

I don’t know if any of the above info helps, but it is a sort of overview of where I am up to. I tell people that I plan to travel to Ireland in the next 18 months or so. I have other Irish ancestors born in Longford, Kildare and Westmeath who travelled to Australia (mostly NSW) in the 19th century. There is still much research to be done. If I am not able to pinpoint their actual places of birth I will at least visit the general vicinity as a sort of pilgrimage.

Apologies if I have overloaded both of you with too much information. Personally, I find any tips, suggestions and mutual interest encouraging.

Kind regards,

Shirley Turner

PS See attached photo of me (in the red shirt) and the three Purcell women I met in Melbourne last year

Hi Shirley , you have an amazing lot of research done,

If  you and Kate would like  to email me at mallow1@irelandxo.com  I will do my best tp help you both.

God bless and regards.

Christina .