Graham, Wiley and McFarland families in early 1860s.

The McFarland – Graham marriage was registered in Omagh on 12.2.1863.

You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church which should be on the certificate, (unless it was a Registry Office marriage). That church may be the place to look for her baptism and that of any siblings.

If you post a copy of the certificate, or the key details from it, on this board, I’ll try and advise you what records are available to search. I particularly need the church and denomination where the marriage took place, the fathers names, the townlands (addresses) and the participants occupations.

I have the certificate, how do I upload it so you can see it?

Ok I uploaded the eletronic copy of the marriage license. 

The Church where the couple married was Donacavey Church of Ireland in Fintona. Their baptism, marriage and burial records start in 1800, so if that was where Ann Jane Graham was baptised you should be able to find her. I note that a witness was Eliza Graham (a sister perhaps) so it’d be worth looking for that name too. Another witness was Arthur Graham who could be the bride’s father. He was a farmer and so you would expect him to be listed in Griffiths (1859). There are no Arthur Grahams listed in Donacavey which is disappointing, suggesting perhaps that Ann Jane had been working in the town and that her family lived elsewhere. There was one in the parish of Dromore (townland of Skeogue) and 3 in KIldress (Killeenan, Tattycor & Glengeen). So if you don’t find Ann Jane in the Donacavey parish records, I’d try Dromore and Kildress next.

The groom appears to come from a different parish. I read his townland as Rahony, parish of Barr. Barr is part of Kilskeery parish. However Rahony is in Dromore parish, so that doesn’t make sense to me. All I can suggest is that you search Kilskeery and Dromore records for his baptism. I searched Griffiths for John McFarland in Co Tyrone. There were several. None in Dromore but 3 in Kilskeery. So it’ll be a question of searching all the records for a Wm McFarland born to John c 1835.

I don’t think these church records are on-line but there are copies in PRONI in Belfast. A personal visit is required to view them.

I searched for a will for John McFarland, farmer, Tyrone. I found 14 prior to 1900, so you should bear that in mind when searching the records. Once you have found the right parents, there might be a relevant will:

http://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_WillsCalendar_IE/WillsSearch.aspx

Thank you, you really know your stuff. I found Arthur and his wife, Anna J. Wiley Graham's passage list a ship from Liverpool to New York. Just a month after the marriage. It listed 6 children of Arthur and William Mc Farland. Eliza was the oldest daughter and then Ann Jane. The other 4 children were John (my great grandfather ), Edward, Rebecca and Hugh James. My question to you, is there a chance that the witnesses were Arthur's parents? I don't know what the tradition was. Why would it be the daughter and not the mother as the witness? My second question is, would there have been a reason to state that the children were two years younger than they were for the ship records? Was there a price break at a certain age, that you know of? Ann was 19 on the marriage papers and on the ship records she was 17. John was listed as 13 but he must have been at least 15. Last question, is there a chance the records you mentioned that are only available in Belfast are also stored at the Family Search Library in Salt Lake City? That is where I found the marriage record.
Thank you so much. I want to have the most information I can before we visit Ireland next time. Last time I was about 5 miles away from where the Grahams lived and I didn't know it. We spent most of our time in Ireland in the South because that is where my wife's, Sullivans are from.

Regarding the witnesses, I have seen parents act as witnesses. That certainly does happen but often it’s the best man and bridesmaid. The bridesmaid is sometimes a friend and sometimes a sister. There’s no way of saying for certain. However in this case, since Ann Jane did have a sister named Eliza I’d expect it to be that rather than Arthur’s parents. (I notice that the bridesmaid could read and write. An elderly grandmother in 1863 probably wouldn’t have been able to do that.  So again I am inclined to think it’s Ann’s sister.).

The certificate you have is a clerks transcription not an original so you are not actually seeing Eliza’s handwriting on this version, but where someone can’t read and write, that is indicated by a cross or a mark, as in the case of the John McLung marriage below Anna’s. There’s no cross against Eliza’s signature so she signed the original with her name.

I can’t say for certain why the ages are out on the ships manifest. It might have been to do with pricing but I can tell you that in the mid 1800s most people in Ireland didn’t celebrate birthdays and weren’t always very sure what age they were. Nobody bothered much and just guessed the information to keep officials happy. Errors like this are very common on manifests, censuses, marriage and death certificates etc.

Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner revisited” perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages:

“My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25th December or 12th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”

I have also attached a letter from someone in 1908 who was writing to his Minister, for proof of age. All he knew was that he was between “70 and 78 years of age.” It shows that the writer had only the vaguest idea of his age. Couldn’t narrow it down to within 9 years. (The reason for the letter was that the old age pension was being introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over. Documentary proof of age was required. Thus for the first time in his life, his age became relevant to him).

The church records might be in the LDS records in Utah. I honestly don’t know. They certainly have copies of some records from Ireland but I know they don’t have them all. (Some churches refused to allow them to copy them).

Thank you, thank you.  You really know the records.

The fact that she could read was interesting.  I just looked at the information I have on Arthur's other daughters and they also could read and write.  That was unusual.  Eliza found a job in Sharon PA. with a very wealthy family, Henry Focker.  He had passed.  His mother was a Graham, Isabella.  Isabella’s father was born in Derry Ireland.  So there could have been a connection there.  But she could have gotten the job because she was educated.  Maybe she helped teach her sisters.  All interesting speculation.  Research of our history is great isn’t it?

Thank you for reminding me that the witnesses would have actually sign the document.  I was wondering why the A in Arthur was different.  I was too dense to catch on.  But you are saying this is not there actual signature, it is written by the clerk?  If I got the original certificate online at GRONI, would that show the actual signature?  I would love to have Arthur’s actual signature.

I just assumed that my great grandfather John, Arthur’s oldest son, was always lying about his age, because it was always reflective of a different year.  He probably really did not know what year he was born.

That is really too bad that some churches will not let the LDS Church make copies.  To me that is paramount to burning books.  It seems like such a waist of knowledge.  Share, share, share, that is always my motto.  You would think, if the Irish want tourism that would be all for getting the knowledge out to the descendants.  Most people I know are dying to visit where their ancestor lived, they just can’t find where that is.  While I am on the subject, I don’t understand why more of the older Irish people are not getting their DNA done.  Talk about Ireland reaching out, wow that would really do it.

If you are interested, I have a 2nd cousin that started a John and Ellen Graham Family Page on Facebook.  We are starting to collect all the descendants of John.

Regarding the marriage certificate, when you marry in a church in Ireland the bride and groom, 2 witnesses and the priest all sign two copies of the marriage register. One stays with the church and the other is sent to the civil registrar. However the civil registrar also used to make a 3rd copy, which was sent off to the Registrar General in Dublin (Head Office). That 3rd copy is the one that you have got from LDS. (The whole document is written in the same handwriting. That’s because a clerk has copied it from an original). If you go to the GRONI website, you’ll get to see one of the copies with the couples actual signatures. (The weblink is in my post of 16th Feb above).

The issue that upset many parishioners in Ireland is that when LDS get copies of old baptism records they baptise them into the Mormon faith. Quite how you can baptise someone without their knowledge and consent, especially if they are dead, is a question to which I have no answer but LDS presumably does. But the point is that people of other denominations here found it very offensive, and so frequently refused LDS permission to have copies.  (They were happy to give them to the Public Record Office though, just not LDS).

Regarding Irish people not having DNA tests, in my experience there are several reasons. Firstly, most know where their ancestors come from. So most aren’t that interested in genealogy, and wouldn’t be bothered about getting tested. Secondly, there would be a general suspicion of giving DNA samples to some commercial company. You would never be quite sure what they might do with the information would be some people’s attitude. Thirdly, they don’t want to pay the fee (often £200 or more for the higher level tests). Fourthly, Irish people would be a bit private about these matters. Every family has a few births on the wrong side of the blanket and not everyone wants that made obvious. They’d just as soon keep their private affairs private. There is also a school of thought that DNA testing is a bit hit and miss anyway. Not much more accurate than a horoscope. I think all of these factors can influence some people.

Certainly the take up rate is pretty low. I attended a presentation by one of the major DNA testing companies here recently. At the end of the evening they were waving 50% off vouchers about but even with that discount I think only about 2 people took them up. The other 100 left without participating. Myself amongst them. Sorry if that’s not what you want to hear, but in my opinion there's quite a cultural difference and as a consequence the attitude to DNA testing for genealogical purposes on this side of the pond is not the same as that in the USA and elsewhere.