Andrew Ramsay

Hi Morgan

The closest matches for Andrew Ramsay birth/baptism 1827 on www.rootsireland.ie/ (a pay site) are all in Donegal: 

1809, 1817 & 1838

http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=1&confirmPageView=Y

The Tithe Applotments (1823-37 & free online) have 36 Ramsays with 17 in Donegal but none in Tyrone.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Ramsay&firstname=&county=&townland=&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=20

Griffiths Valuation (free 1848-64) has 599 Ramsays including 96 in Tyrone.

There are 454 in the 1911 Irish Census & 460 in 1901 (both free online)

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1911&surname=Ramsay&firstname=&county=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&search=Search&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&birthplace=&language=&deafdumb=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=

The Irish phone book has 21 Ramsays (free online) so you might want to try dropping them, a line if you don't get any responses.

http://www.eircomphonebook.ie/q/name/who/Ramsay/?customerType=RESIDENTIAL&contentErrorLinkEnabled=true

Col

Morgan,

You ask what was happening in Ireland in 1847 that might make someone leave. The most obvious answer is the famine, though there were other economic factors encouraging migration all through the 1800s. The famine just speeded the process up.

Ireland has very few natural resources (no oil, coal, iron ore etc) and so did not benefit from the industrial revolution in the 1800s, the way Scotland, England, the US, Canada & Australia did, which created hundreds of thousands of comparatively well-paid new jobs in new industries (coal mining, steel making, ship building etc). So that was a big pull factor. There had also been a huge population explosion in Ireland going up from about 3 million people in 1750 to 8 million in 1830. There simply weren?t the jobs for all those people. In much of Ireland the only employment was subsistence farming topped up in Ulster and one or two other areas with a bit of linen weaving. And then the straw that broke the camel?s back, along came the famine, numerous times throughout the 1800s. The worst period was when the potato crop failed almost completely 3 years in a row in the late 1840s, and then partially several more years after that. Many farmers were very much one crop dependent, because you could grow more potatoes to the acre than any other crop, but as a consequence they had nothing else to fall back on, and because it was largely a barter economy they mostly had no spare cash to buy food. When the crop failed 3 years in a row, people ended up eating their seed potatoes, leaving them nothing to plant the next spring. It is estimated that during the years 1845 to 1850, around 800,000 people died of starvation or of a famine-related disease such as typhus, dysentery, scurvy or pellagra. A further two million people emigrated. Unlike earlier famines, in which the population recovers quickly from the catastrophe and continues to grow, the after- effects of the Great Irish Famine were such that the population of Ireland, standing at 8.2 million people in 1841, declined to 6.6 million in 1851. Fifty years later, Ireland's population was still showing a decline (down to 4.5 million), even though every other European country was showing a population increase. Ireland?s population did not return to its pre-famine heights until 1964. Approximately 8 million people left Ireland between 1801 and 1900 - the equivalent of the entire pre-Famine population. The population today is only around 6 million.

Ramsay is a predominantly Scottish name and your ancestors probably came from Scotland in the 1600s, either as apart of the Plantation or because of the famine there in the late 1600s. During the course of the 1600s, some 100,000 Scots settled in Ireland representing 10% of the entire Scottish population. Though the vast majority were Presbyterian, not all were. Co Fermanagh (the next county to Tyrone) has very few Presbyterians. Most of there Scots setters there were from the Scottish borders and came with no religion, and ultimately joined the Church of Ireland (Episcopalian). Intermarriage sometimes also led to changes in denomination.

Can?t say why your ancestor would have put Gt Britain for his ethnicity. That?s evidently how he perceived himself. Tyrone was (and still is) all part of the UK at the time anyway, so his nationality was British. So it wasn?t inaccurate.

Elwyn

Gosh, Elwyn, thank you so much! I'm very interested in History but beyond the early famine you mentioned, I really haven't a clue about Irish history. So thank you for taking the time to write to me! It really helps put things in perspective; when I see how gorgeous Ireland is I often wonder what on EARTH my ancestors were thinking leaving it for places like Winnipeg and Toronto!! :D So this helped me understand at least a little of what they would have been going through.

Really intersting about the migration of Lowland Scots to Ireland... I didn't know that it would have been so early as the 1600s. Really cool! The other side of my family (from Grandma back) comes from Antrim, and her family often flipped back and forth between Glasgow & the Central Belt and Antrim. Judging by Census returns they must have taken advantage of the coal industry, especially from what you said about it not being in Ireland!

Thank you so much once again. Youre a star!!

Morgan

Thank you too Col! Its interesting to see all the resources I can tap into. I sometimes forget about half of those... Me thinks I shall bookmark this page. :)

So no Ramsay's at all in Tyrone? Hmm... For someone who consistently listed his birthday as 1827 on EVERYTHING, I wonder what he could have been thinking (or hiding) by listing Tyrone? This man is a doozy. But I am undettered! I shall break down this brick wall! Hahaha...

Thank you for doing so much research for me. It must have taken some time to do, and I really appreciate the effort very much. It may be several years down the road, but I'll keep you posted on my progress...

What were the main towns in Tyrone at the time? Blacksmith would have either been a family job passed down, or apprenticed. That would probably have taken place in more major centers, right??

Many Many Thanks!

Morgan

Hi Morgan

I think Elwyn would be able to better answer the questions in the last paragraph better than I can

Col

Morgan,

There probably are Ramsays in Tyrone in the tithe applotment records. It?s just that only a few of the tithe records for Tyrone are on-line. (One or two parishes that straddle the border with Co Donegal are listed on the National Archives site, but those that were within Tyrone itself (ie the majority) are not on-line. They do exist but need to be looked up in PRONI, in Belfast.

Also the tithes only list people who headed properties liable to pay tithes eg farmers. They don?t list other members of those households and they don?t list people who were servants, labourers or in accommodation that for one reason or another didn?t attract a tithe.

Most of Ireland at that time was rural. There were very few towns. Most blacksmiths would have been rural too, making and mending machinery, putting shoes on horses etc for farmers in their local area. It probably would have been a skill passed from father to son. I doubt there were any formal apprenticeships at that time. The main towns in Tyrone would have been Omagh, Dungannon, Strabane, Castlederg, Newtown Stewart, Cookstown.

Elwyn

Hi Morgan, I see this is an old post but I wonder if this is of any help to you. In the 1861 Census for Govan, Glasgow, my 3x great grandfather John Ramsay is listed as being an iron foundry worker from Ephraim, Tyrone. I know his son John was a blacksmith. I have not been able to find any reference to Ephraim in Tyrone, and I know from both sides of the family, that there was a constant flow of people between the North of Ireland (Northern Ireland, Donegal and Sligo) and Scotland. I am in central Scotland, originally Glasgow. I have been trying to find out where the Irish Ramsays came from in Scotland! 

Patricia 

Patricia,

Only townland I can see in Tyrone that sounds anything like Ephraim is Effernan Glebe in the parish of Kilskeery (near Irvinestown). No Ramsays there in Griffiths Valuation but that doesn’t mean they didn’t come from there. You might want to search the local church records.

Thank you Elwyn, only just found your reply. I hope to visit Northern Ireland next Spring to see what I can find.

Patricia