Info Sought on family off Patrick John O'Rourke - born 1890

I suspect this may be your family, in Tullycanna townland, given that the occupation is ?miller?. Tullycanna is in the RC parish of Carrick on Bannow.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Harperstown/Tullycanna/1801258/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Harperstown/Tullycanna/691806/

The prefixes O & Mc in Irish names are detachable and were often not used, as in your family?s case, it appears.

Looking at Griffiths Valuation for 1853 there?s no Rourke family there. The only corn mill in the townland was plot 18 which was in the name of Mathew White. Presumably your family acquired it some time between then and 1901. The mill (water powered) was at Tullycanna bridge which is just off the L7067 minor Rd, a few miles east of Wellington Bridge. It half a mile or so south of Ballymitty.

Possible death for Mary Rourke registered Jan ? Mar 1904 in Wexford town. Est year of birth 1857. Possible death for John Rourke registered Wexford Jan ? Mar 1930 est year of birth 1850.

Possible marriage for Mary O?Rourke to Edward Kehoe, registered Wexford Apr ? Jun 1930.

This is very interesting information.  It is consistent with the general information I had.  I have to say the census data was a little disconcerting when ages for members of the Rourke household didn't all increment by 10 years between the 1901 and 1911 census.  I guess the census takers could be at fault but it appears that the head of household signs the sheet.  I wonder if maybe there is a reason why people would intentionally make inaccurate entries.

Inconsistencies and errors in ages of up to 10 years or more are very common on Irish censuses, marriage and death certificates. Most people didn?t know their ages, they didn?t celebrate birthdays, they weren?t that interested and so they just guessed.

There was no interview to gather the census information. The enumerator left the form at each house and then collected it later, so the information on it is as given by the householder. If it?s wrong, it wasn?t the enumerator?s fault. John Rourke declared he could read and write and he signed both census forms, so I?d say he supplied the information and any errors are down to him. (There can be reasons why someone might deliberately change their age eg vanity or for pension purposes. An an old age pension had been introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over, so there was a tendency for some people in their 60s to increase their age in the 1911 census, in the hope of qualifying for a pension, but I don't think either of these reasons apply here). As I say inaccurate ages on censuses were widespread, and there is nothing unusual or sinister about it.

You can verify the correct birth dates of everyone born after 1864 by their birth certificates. Parish records may be available for births prior to that.

 Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book ?The Chimney Corner revisited? perhaps explains why people often had to guess their age:

?My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen?s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25^th December or 12^th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.?

I received some additional information and now have confidence that the Rourke family of Tullycanna listed in the 1901 and 1911 census is my grandfather's family.

It is interesting that his mother was not included in the household for the 1901 census but his father was listed as married and then on the 1911 census as widowed.  This would be consistent with his wife having died in 1904.  (The index of deaths registered is necessarily spare of details and I wonder if a copy of the actual document could be had where presumably much more information would be included.)

Family history that was passed down reports that Patrick was next in line to inherit the estate including a mill on his father's death in 1930.  He was well established and did not want to move back to Ireland at that time and made an agreement with his unmarried sister Mary where she would take control.  I have a copy of a bank check to Patrick dated 10 May, 1930.  Happily for Mary she married shortly thereafter.

Patrick also was included in the records as one with a potential claim on the estate of Margaret M (Furlong) McGrale (abt 1881 - 26 Mar 1944 -Los Angeles).  A 1945 letter I have a copy of from "Solicitors to Wexford Corp. & Arklow Urban Council" indicated he was one of 21 second cousins (he had died the previous year). I have to love the solicitor`s address was 2 George Street, Wexford, Telephone No 5.

If you want to order a copy of Mary Rourke?s death cert, it was registered in Wexford town Jan ? Mar 1904 Vol 4, page 635. It will contain her place of death, usual residence if different, marital status, sex, age, occupation, cause of death & the informant.

You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Put ?please e-mail to?..? clearly on the top of the form.

Thanks to your suggestion I was able to secure copies of death registrations for three of my grandfather's brothers and marriage of his sister Mary to Ed Kehoe from the GRO.  That is a fantastic resource.

John Rourke's (1850-1930) wife Mary (Ronan) who was not in the household for the 1901 census and had apparently passed away by the time the 1911 census was taken is still not found.  The index suggested turned out to be not for the right person.  Perhaps I will need to request a collection of Mary Rourke death records to find the one that ties in with my grandfather's family.

My mother and sister had actually visited the church in Bannow in the past where Mary Rourke and Ed Kehoe were married in 1930 looking for that and other family records but were told they had no records of the O'Rourke family.  I appreciate the GRO being able to provide that information.

John Rourke's (1850-1930) wife Mary Rourke (?-?) was listed with a miden name of (Doran) instead of (Ronan) as previously indicated.  

There are only 2 Mary Rourke (& O?Rourke) death registered in Wexford town in the period 1901 ? 1911. You have one and the other was for someone born in 1885, so that can?t be her.

In that case the conclusion would appear to be that she died in another part of Ireland (or even outside Ireland). If I widen the search to anywhere in Ireland then there were 185 deaths of women of that name in Ireland. So a needle in a haystack. It?s odd that she is missing in the 1901 census. Could she been living somewhere else, eg with one of her children, or with a sister?

I wondered about the 1901 census because if Mary Rourke resided there who ever in  household member that completed the census form would have listed her.  It would be apparent that she lived somewhere else.  In that day what would be the circumstances where she would live apart from her husband and children.  Seems like people with lingering illnesses suffered and died at home versus entering some facility or santarium/sanatorium.  Perhaps there was a rift and she wound up boarding somewhere and working in someone else's household?

A Kathleen Doran was a witness to the 1930 wedding of her daughter Mary and Ed Kehoe.

The trai seem pretty cold at this point.

The census for each property only lists people actually present on census night. It doesn?t list people who normally live there but happen to be absent that night. So if she did normally reside there, but was away staying with a sister or on a trip to England or wherever, then she wouldn't be listed in the family home (though she should be listed at whatever address she was staying at, provided it was somewhere in the UK or Ireland).

She could certainly have been in hospital (and that?s tricky because hospital inpatients were only listed by their initials in the census, so very difficult to trace). They might have been living apart but it?s unusual for the mother to leave the children. It?s usually the husband who stays somewhere else leaving the wife with the children.

The local hospital was attached to the workhouse in Wexford Town. I looked at the list of inmates in the 1901 census, and there is a woman there with the initials M R (actually MAR) who was married and aged 46. Could be her. There?s no real way of telling without looking up the admission records (which are in Wexford County Archive Service in Ardcavan). Wexford town workhouse and hospital in 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Wexford_Urban/…

The local hospital or an asylum angle is interesting.  If indeed MAR would pan out to be Mary Rourke it would beg the question why there isn't a record of her death in that vicinity following to the 1901 census.  One could imagine she was there in 1901 and subsequently moved to another location where she died.

It looks like data from Wexford County Archive Service can be accessed but not online and they do not provide research services.  It sounds like one must physically visit the place.

Information developed from birth certifications indicate that (Mary) is the wrong surname contrary to my grandfather's US death certificate.  His siblings bracketing his DOB have Anty or Anastasia Rourke Doran recorded as their mother.

Between information obtained from the GRO and parish records from Roots Ireland we have records for the marriage of John Rourke and Anastatia Doran, 1881 in Newcastle/Clongeen.  Anastatia's baptism record and death of her father (Maurice) in March 1861, again NewCaltle/Clongeen.  We also have Anastatia's death certificate in asylum, Enniscorthy, 1904.  It seems like amazing good fortune to have found this information.

We will be visiting Ireland and I would love a driving tour but wonder if information would be most forthcoming laboring in the National Archives.  If I understand correctly parish records of this time period are available there on microfilm.  We will have work on the schedule.

NLI has a copy of the Carrick on Bannow RC parish records for the years 1832 to 1880 (with some gaps). (POS 4244 at NLI). For later years you would need to contact the parish priest. (An appointment is normally required.). There are no earlier records, so far as I am aware.