McIlvenny, McElvenna, McElvany

Hi Heather

There is a baptism record of Arthur McIlvenny born 1873 in Antrim on www.rootsireland.ie/

The record will have the parish and SHOULD have the father's name

Col

If you buy a copy of the McIlvenny-Scullion marriage certificate from Scotlandspeople, it should give you both Arthur?s parents names. (Scottish marriage and death certs contain both parents names). The relevant reference appears to be: Port Glasgow 1901,  574/00 0023

NB Jean and Jane are interchangeable in Scotland and Ireland, so you'll find the bride listed as Jane.

Thanks for the reply. I think there is a copy of the marriage cert. floating around the family somewhere. I believe that's where the page numbers come from on the info I have. I am in touch with relatives in Scotland, but their info doesn't go back any further than Arthur's parents, John McIlvenna and Anne Murray. Interesting to note that a John M McIlvenna signed the Ulster Covenant from the district of GREENOCK, SCOTLAND, listing his residence as Glarryford, Antrim. Greenock is where all of Arthur's children were born, so maybe he was living there for a while with them, or visiting. I'd really love to get further back with this John McIlvenny, but he's about where I'm stuck. I have a note of unknown origin conjecturing that HIS father was another Arthur. We're planning a trip to Ireland, hopefully next year, so I'd love to get as much info as possible so I have somewhere to start! Thanks for the ideas.

Thanks! I'm alsmot sure his parents were John McIlvenny and Anne (Nancy) Murray, but I don't have the birth cert for Arthur or his marriage in Scotland, both of which should list his father's name. They both cost more credits than I have on Scotland's People or on Rootsireland.ie.  I don't want to pay again for a copy, when I know someone in the family gave me this info. I have this detail "Register 1, page 22, Entry 8" but not sure what registry that refers to. I do have verification, though, through a Baptism record on ancestry.com, that has his parents as John McIlvenna and Nancy Murray McIlvenna. One of these days I'll have to save up and buy some credits I suppose.

The references for Arthur?s birth on Familysearch are Ballymena 1873 Volume 1, page 151. You use those if ordering from GRO Roscommon. They should send you a photocopy for ?4. http://www.groireland.ie/

Another copy of the Port Glasgow marriage will cost you 6 credits on Scotlandspeople. That?s about ?1.20.

If you don?t obtain copies of these documents to verify the information, then, in my opinion, any further search backwards is just guesswork. You also really need the townland from the birth cert to make sure you are searching in the right place.

There?s a marriage between Nancy Murray and John Mulvena (an alternative spelling for McIlvenna) registered in Ballymena in 1866 Vol 11, page 193. That might be the parents. Again the townlands and denomination would help trace those 2 families more easily, especially if the spelling of the surnames varies.

You don?t say what denomination the family were, but here?s an RC family that fits the information you have:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Portglanone/Garvaghy/940785/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Portglenone/Garvaghy/124086/

Note: If the family were RC, then the man who signed the Ulster Covenant in Scotland is unlikely to be from that same family.

The household in the 2 censuses lived on plot 52 which was a house and 3 acres of land, which they bought outright in 1909. It?s in the name John M?Vena in the revaluation records. The precise location would be easy enough to find today should you wish to do so, but you would need to get a copy of the Griffiths map for Garvaghy from Ballymena library, as that has the plot numbers shown on it. However it?ll be off the modern Garvaghy Rd just outside Portglenone.

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm

Looking at Griffiths Valuation for that townland in 1862, there were 3 households sharing 8 and a half acres: Arthur, Ann & Hugh M?Ilvany. Evidently John?s ancestors.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

If this is the correct family, then you might want to check out the RC parish records. Unfortunately there are none earlier than 1864. A copy is on Rootsireland (pay to view) or you can look them up free in PRONI, Belfast, when you visit Ireland. This is what PRONI hold:

R.C. Portglenone (Down and Connor diocese) Baptisms, 1864-81; marriages, 1864-82.

Later records should still be with the parish priest.

I've ordered the birth record from the GRO. The form was a bit difficult, but I filled in what I think I know. I also viewed the Marriage Cert for Arthur McIlvenny and Jane Scullion on Scotland's People, which confirms Arthur's parents as Father: John McIlvenny, farmer and Mother: Agnes McIlvenny, MS Murray. I know Agnes can also be Nancy and Ann, so no doubts there. The marriage took place at Port Glasgow County Refrew on 15 Feb 1901 at St John's Church, Pt. Glasgow, "after publication according to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church." So that verifies that they were RC. My Dad also says he remembers his grandmother and all his aunties as being especially devout Catholics. I'm guessing Arthur's family probably was as well. 

Regarding Parish and Townland. I always heard Arthur was born in Portglenone, and it seems that's backed up on familysearch. I'm sure that will be the case when the GRO sends the corresponding document. I also see Ballymena come up. Is Ballymena the Townland and Portglenone is the Parish, while the county is Antrim?  Forgive my ignorance on this topic. I really haven't researched much on the family in Ireland, since I have been rather stuck.  My direct line ended up in Scotland by the late 1800 - early 1900s and I never knew who may have stayed behind. 

I'd love to see the marriage between Nancy Murray and John Mulvena you found registered in Ballymena in 1866 Vol 11, page 193. Do you think that is available from GRO Roscommon as well? Pretty sure that could be the ones I'm looking for. The family in the 1901 and 1911 census certainly fits. Since John and Nancy would have been born in the 1840s, are there any other resources for tracking them further? As you know documents earlier that the 1860s are scarce. The RC parish records may at least record some births/marriages of family members.

You're clearly more expert than I with the Griffith's Valuation. I was able to see a map using one of the links, but I can't figure out how to see the modern map under the overlay in order to get there one day.

Thanks so much for your help!

You can order a photocopy of the 1866 marriage from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, quarter (where there is one), volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). Don?t worry about leaving some boxes blank. You don?t need to fill them all in if you have the reference details. http://www.groireland.ie/

You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Tick the relevant box on the form.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church (assuming the couple attended different churches) so that may be the place to look for the bride?s baptism and that of any siblings. Unless it was a registry office marriage, the church will be on the certificate.

Ballymena is where the civil registrar?s office was for births, deaths and marriages in that part of Co Antrim. So a birth, marriage or death in the Portglenone area will show up in civil records, listed under Ballymena, which is sort of the county town..

A townland is the smallest administrative area of land in Ireland. They can vary in size from 1 acre up to 5000 acres, though most are between 50 and 500 acres. The whole country is divided into townlands. Many are rural, and there is not necessarily any town in a townland. Indeed some have no-one living in them at all, eg mountain tops and uninhabited islands. Originating in the older Gaelic dispensation, and dating back to the 11^th century, if not earlier, townlands were used as the basis of leases in the estate system, and subsequently to assess valuations and tithes in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

In rural areas there were no street names or house numbers (that is still the case in some parts) and your townland was sufficient to identify you or get a letter delivered. The postman, and anyone else who mattered, knew exactly where in the townland everyone lived. They survive today as important markers of local identity. (A townland is not the same as a US township).

A group of townlands makes a parish and a group of parishes makes a barony.

So the McIlvenny family appear to have lived on a farm in the townland of Garvaghy. That townland is partly urban (ie the village of Portglenone) and partly rural eg where your family farmed. I would expect to see Garvaghy appear on the birth and marriage certificates rather than Portglenone, which would have been the nearest postal town. A letter would have been addressed to the family at Garvaghy, Portglenone, Co Antrim.

In Northern Ireland, in the 1950s and 60s it was decided to name all the roads and allocate house numbers in each townland. There are a couple of roads in Garvaghy but the main one now is Garvaghy Rd. But it dodn't have that name in the 1800s.

As well as being the postal town, Portglenone is also the parish name.

The way of seeing the modern map on Griffiths is to bring up the contemporary (old) map. You?ll then see in the top right hand corner a tool. If you slide it left to right or vice versa it switches between the two maps. Now, in general, on the contemporary maps, the individual plots are outlined in red. For some reason some of the townlands around Portglenone do not have that feature. So I can?t tell you from the on-line version, exactly where the farm was. However Ballymena library do have Griffiths maps of Garvaghy with all the farms shown. So you can find out that way. Or, I see from the phone book that there?s an E. McIlvenny at 8 Garvaghy Rd, Portglenone, BT44 8EF. So that might be the family farm with a modern descendant on it. If it isn?t the family farm, I feel pretty sure they may be able to tell you of any other McIlvennys in the area. You might want to get in touch.

Thanks so much for all of the help!  I look forward to lots more research because of it. I've purchased two items, and am sending away for the birth and marriage records, hoping the GRO is able to find them with the information I supplied. 

I found the slider at the top of the map...thanks for that. Can't believe I missed it. I'll look into getting in touch with the McIlvenny who still resides there. I plan to reach out to my relatives in Scotland as well, who may have had some contact with some family in Ireland years ago. We'll see what happens.

Thanks again!

Heather