Burt History 1700's

Good Afternoon

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out and apologies for the delay in replying to your message.

I have passed your query to a volunteer who will, hopefully, be able to help you further your research

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support

You don?t say what denomination the Burt family were. (Though they may have relatives buried in the Church of Ireland graveyard, that doesn?t necessarily mean they were of that denomination). I looked at the 1901 census for Co Antrim and there are only 4 Burts, a mix of Presbyterian and Church of Ireland. Hopefully yours were COI, as their records for the parish go back much further than the Presbyterian ones.

Glenavy baptism and marriage records start in 1707 but they are not on-line anywhere as far as I can see (the burials are on-line, on rootisireland). There is a copy of all the parish records for that period in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast and if you can?t get there yourself, you might need to get a researcher to call on your behalf.

I note that the Burts may have been United Irishmen. There are no records of the rank and file members (and there probably never were). After the 1798 uprising failed, the rank and file who weren?t killed on the battle field, slipped away and were effectively pardoned. One or two leaders were executed and a fair number of middle ranking officers were offered a deal whereby they wouldn?t be prosecuted if they and their families left Ireland by a specified date. Since the alternative was a trial for treason (penalty - death) naturally most took the one way ticket option. Some of these, and some 200 United Irishmen prisoners in the Belfast area are detailed in the Black Book of the Rebellion. There?s a copy of that in PRONI. (MIC 575/1).

I really don't know what denomination they were.  Here in the states they (my grandparents and parents) were Episcopalian.  Some of the Burt family were buried in Philadelphia, PA in the Laurel Hill Cemetary which was non-sectarian burial place.

Going by historic books of Philadelphia, one of which says,..."Arthur Burt the grandfather, lived and died in the province of Western Ireland. His children were William, Alice, Arthur, Hannah and Nathaniel.  William and Hannah died in early life Alice was married to Thomas Ingraham (Ingram) in Ireland, and emigrated and settled on a farm within the present limits of the city of Pittsburgh (PA).  Her descendants are still prominent in that locality.  Nathaniel was a member of the order of "United Irishmen", and took a part in the contest of that order with the English government, he and his brother Arthur being arrayed on opposite sides.  He was born at the homestead of "Glenarg," near Belfast, in 1770.  Upon the defeat of the Rebellion he was obliged to flee the country, and came to America in 1801." from History of Lancaster County, PA, with Biographical Sketches of Many of its Pioneers and Prominent Men Chapter LXXV.  Salisbury Township by John C. Linvill.

But it is frustrating not to find an actual government document that shows his birth, death, marriage, etc.  I got so excited when I found the reference on a gravestone there in the Glenavy Parish Church Cemetery with Arthur and Alice Burt but of course it had no readable dates.  It seems that most of the government records online, don't go back far enough for me.  I know Nathaniel was born in 1770 so I presume Arthur was born a few years from that date and I would guess that his father would have been born what 1730-1750?

Unfortunately, that is one of the major difficulties with Irish records. Church records are one of the most important sources, but the quality and availability of them varies depending on the parish and on the denomination. Church of Ireland records generally start earlier than those of Roman Catholic and Presbyterian parishes, the latter concentrated in Ulster. As a result, researchers are forced to ?think outside the box? and try to find ways to bridge the gaps left by the vacuum of records. In most cases this involves local newspapers and census substitutes like pension claim forms, the Books of Survey and Distribution (http://www.irishmanuscripts.ie/servlet/Controller?action=digitisation_backlist) military records, Tithe Applotment Books, Parliamentary Papers etc. Many of these records are not available online but every day new sources are being digitised. Eneclann, a Trinity College Campus Company have been digitising sources for some time and they are available on their website: www.eneclann.ie

Researchers from Timeline are also available to conduct paid research in repositories (like the National Archives, Dublin where you may find records in relation to the United Irishmen) where records are not available online: http://www.timeline.ie/

Best wishes

Clare Doyle

Genealogy Support

Thank you Clare for this information.  One year I hope to visit Ireland and do some digging in person.  But guess until then I will keep asking and searching.

Debra,

If your grandparents were Episcopalian then that?s an indicator their ancestors were Church of Ireland here. So I would certainly give the Glenavy Church of Ireland parish records careful scrutiny. (The only flaw in my logic is that most United Irishmen were either RC or Presbyterian, because those denominations suffered discrimination that members of the Church of Ireland did not. However there were other injustices and some COI did support the United Irishmen).

Birth certificates weren?t introduced in Ireland till 1864 so there are no Government records that you are going to find that will show their dates of birth, marriage dates or deaths. For the 1700s, there?s not much more than church records unless you were  major landowner or notorious in some way.

Don?t expect too much from the church records even if you find them. Though there will be a baptismal date, for the late 1700s you often don?t get the birth date, and so all you can really say is the person was probably born within the previous 2 or 3 months. Sometimes you get townlands (addresses) but often you don?t.  It?s pretty limited. Marriages don?t have parents names etc. However with Burt being such a rare name, you may be able to pick up other members of the family in the registers and piece them together.

You are correct that very few records go back to the 1700s. (Glenavy is one of the few parishes that does). As Clare has commented, research in the 1700s is difficult. Sometimes next to impossible.

It?s probably worth checking the tithe applotment records for Glenavy (which date to around 1830) to see if there are any Burts listed. (Only people with land would be there, so it?s not as good as a census, but better than nothing. Those for Co Down are not on-line and so again a trip to PRONI is required to view them. That might throw up any Burts that stayed in Ireland.

I don?t know of anywhere near Belfast called Glenarg. There?s Glenarm which is about 30 miles from Belfast, in Co Antrim, and obviously the parish of Glenavy. That?s probably the 2 nearest.

The defeat of the United Irishmen was in 1798, so if Nathaniel had to flee in 1801, it took him 3 years to get around to it. As I said previously, most of the rank and file were pardoned. Unless he was higher up in the organization he wouldn?t have had to flee (though he might well still have chosen to leave).  The United Irishmen were created because of injustices in respect of Catholics and Presbyterians (restrictions on what they could do), so even after the defeat they had political and economic motives for leaving, together obviously with opportunities for cheaper land etc in the US and other destinations.

Elwyn

Thank you Elwyn.  I will try the tithe applotment records for Glenavy.  With regard to the Burt surname, do you know the origination of the name Burt in Burt Castle or the naming of the parish of Burt there in Ireland.  I was wondering if those had a connection to my surname or if Burt had another meaning or history to it in Ireland.

Burt in Co Donegal seems to be the anglicised version of the Irish name ?An bheart? which means something like ?the place?.  It?s not named after anyone called Burt. Put it that way. Unlikely to be connected to people in Co Antrim with the surname Burt.

Okay, I was thinking that after I read about the Burt Castle and the name O'Doherty was connected to it, but it was worth a shot.  Many thanks again.