John Shields/Shiels in Kilmancrenan

Kimberly:

Unfortunately, Kilmacrenan RC records do not start until 1862 and civil registration started in 1864. I looked at the 1858 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Kilmacrenan parish (see link below). There are a number of Sheil, Sheil and Sheils entries including a John Shiel in Cashel townland. Not sure if this is the father of Francis and Michael or not.

Roger McDonnell

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/donegal/kilmacrenan.htm

Kimberly,

Regarding your remark about not knowing whether your ancestors came from Kilmacrenan barony, town or parish, I think you can rule out the barony. I have never seen people routinely use that when saying where they came from. It could be the parish or the town, but my inclination would be for the town. Mostly people gave the town or townland that they came from, when asked for their address or place of origin. They did sometimes give their parish, but in this case I?d suspect it was the town.

That may help narrow the search slightly but, as Roger has said, there are no RC church records for the period you are interested in which will make it difficult.

Elwyn

Thanks so much for your reply Roger!

I have seen the 1858 Valuation, as well as some of the early Census records which have Shiels in a variety of towns within the Kilmacrenan parish. Is it your opinion that these sources are complete? So if I don't see a John in Kilmacrenan town I can safely assume they were not there but somewhere else within the parish?

The story I have is that Francis Shields' mother Ann applied for his military pension after he was killed at the Battle of Antietam in 1862. She states that her husband John returned to Ireland and left her with no support, and that Francis was her sole support before he left for the war. She provided a letter to the US Pensioner's Board from the parish priest that Francis was born to her and John in Apr 1840 and christened in Apr 1840 as well to prove she was his mother. Her request was granted and she received his military pension.

So I'm wondering how she got a letter from the parish in 1862, giving his birth and christening information if there are no records prior to 1862 available within the parish. Perhaps the records are simply not available online? Or they were destroyed/lost since 1862?

If you have any ideas I'd much appreciate it.

Best Regards,

Kimberly

Thank you Elwyn for your reply and insight. I appreciate the information as trying to establish a location within the barony would have been difficult at best.

Do you have an opinion as to whether people routinely married people from other townships? I have yet to find one township with all of my ancestors' surnames so have to assume they had a way of meeting up with people from other townships on a regular basis. If so, perhaps I can triangulate the Griffith's data from the other towns and come up with an educated guess about where they were all from within the parish.

Unfortunately the other surnames are very common (Gallagher, Dougherty, McBride, Sweeney) so I'm trying to focus on the Shiels surname as that is the least common of them all from what I have seen so far.

I appreciate any additional insight you can provide.

Best Regards,

Kimberly

Kimberley:

The Griffiths Valuation was complete to my knowledge and although there are census fragments for some counties for 1821, 1831, 1841 and 1851, there were no fragments for Co. Donegal. Based on the location of all the Shields, Shiels and Sheils in the Griffiths, assuming your relatives were there, it would appear they were not in the town but in townlands within the parish.

Regarding the Kilmacrenan RC records, I think you are correct based on your evidence, records did exist before 1862 but were either destroyed or lost in the intervening years.

Roger

Thank you Roger for your insight. I will go on the assumption the family was in the parish and not the Kilmacrenan township and use the other available sources to try and pinpoint the correct township. I may not be able to get any further than I have, but at least I've ruled out some possibilities.

Best Regards,

Kimberly

Kimberly,

Prior to the arrival of the bicycle in Ireland (1870s for rural areas) most people travelled by foot. Therefore if you were courting someone, it mostly tended to be within walking distance of where you lived. Walking distance then might have been 5 to 10 miles, but for most people, courting someone 30 miles away wasn?t a great idea. You would hardly ever meet. So the majority married someone fairly close by.  I have heard people say that you married ?within an asses bark? of where you lived, or that you married ?across the sheugh? (across the ditch) ie the next farm. So certainly look for spouses families nearby, in adjacent townlands. Anywhere up to 10 miles away perhaps. Bear in mind some of the townlands are quite small. Kilmacrennan townland (which includes the village itself) is 233 acres. So a 5 minute walk in any direction has you in another townland. (Townlands are not the same as US townships. The whole country is divided into adjacent townlands, regardless of whether anyone lives there or not. Whereas with townships, you might obviously travel miles to the next one). So looking in a different townland just means looking 500 yards away in many cases.

Griffiths wasn?t a census. It didn?t list everyone. It listed heads of household and just those with land worth taxing (?5 rental or more). So people with small turf cabins, servants, people in many towns and so on, weren?t listed at all. So absence from Griffiths doesn?t mean someone didn?t live there. (We use Griffiths because it;s all we have got. The actual censuses were destroyed so this was felt to be the best alternative, but there's no way it is as comprehensive as a real census). 

Regarding early church records, here?s a link to a site which tells you what RC records exist for each parish, and where copies are held. It says there?s nothing prior to 1862 for Kilmacrennan. I cross checked with the PRONI (public record office) site in Belfast. They hold copies too. Theirs also start in 1862. So I am pretty sure those are the earliest. You could always e-mail or write to the pp to check, but I?d be very surprised if there are any earlier ones, as those are what people most want, and so it would be surprising if they had been overlooked when the lists were compiled. There probably were earlier records at one time but they have been lost due to fire, water damage, negligence etc.  (Co Donegal is particularly poor for early records. There?s hardly a parish in the county with records before the 1860s. I don?t know why that is).

http://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/donegalrc.htm

Elwyn

Elwyn, thank you so much for the wealth of information!! That is exactly the kind of insight I needed in order to start making some educated guesses and researching different paths.

I will re-review all available online sources for adjacent townlands and the various surnames to see what I can find in a 10 mile radius of Kilmacrenan.

Best Regards,

Kimberly