lawler/campion

You say that the man who was a horse trainer was named James Lawler. However the 1901 census lists him as John.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Kilkenny/Kilkenny_Urban/Walkinslough/1451055/

Familysearch has a John Lalor death registered in Kilkenny in Oct ? Dec 1910.  Volume 3, page 334. Est year of birth 1853. There?s also a couple of James Lalor/Lawlor deaths of roughly the right age in 1905. (The ages were just the informant?s best guess and, for an older person, can often be out by anything up to 10 years. Take them as no more than indicative of the persons actual age).

I can?t see any death registered in Kilkenny  or Kildare that matches the information on Lucy Lawler.  Lucy jnr seems to have had her birth registered in Athy in Jan ? Mar 1894 so the mother must have been alive then. There are various Lawlor deaths registered in Athy in the late 1890s. Perhaps Lucy had a second name and was registered under that?

thanks for that will have a look but we know for sure the spelling of their surname was lawler and lucy jnr was born in mar 1894 and was baptisedin castledermot. I am guessing that lucy snr died sometime between her birth and census for 1901. but of course if the father died before 1911 census children would be split up and very hard to find.

sorry his first name was john not james. getting mixed up with other side of mothers family. but their surname was definetly spelt lawler.

colleen flynn

sorry his first name was john not james. getting mixed up with other side of mothers family. but their surname was definetly spelt lawler.

colleen flynn

Colleen,

In my opinion, it would be a mistake to assume that your family?s name was always spelled Lawler.  The concept of a single ?correct? spelling was not one people in Ireland in the 1800s recognised, or cared much about. Literacy standards were not always very high and spelling varied all the time, mostly at the whim of the person recording the information. Keep an open mind when looking at the official records. Lalor/Lawlor/Lawler are all variants of the same name. I suspect the 1910 death for John Lalor in Kilkenny  is probably your ancestor. It?ll only cost ?4 to get a copy to find out.

Re Lucy?s birth in 1894, Castledermot is in the Athy civil registration area so the birth information you have given matches the record I found on Familysearch. So that seems to pinpoint Lucy senior?s death to between March 1894 and 31^st March 1901 (when the census was taken). I can?t see a single death of a person of that name anywhere in Ireland in the relevant years. I have also looked at all female Lalor/Lawler deaths in Athy in the relevant years. (There?s about 25). But none has a name that is anything like Lucy. A bit of a mystery.

I have searched the 1911 census for the children, including the workhouse records (which are recorded by initials rather than name) but cannot see where they were, save for Lucy who seems to have been in this household:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Carlow/Carlow_Urban/Athy_Street/310683/

I'd hazard a guess that Susanna Coogan was John Lawler's sister.

Elwyn

Further to the above message, here?s possibly Edward in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Ivar_Street/42349/

Regarding Ellie, she appears to have been born as Ellen Mary Lawler (Oct ? Dec 1881). There?s a couple of possible marriages for her. One in Jan ? Mar 1907 in Athy, the other (Mary Ellen Lawler) in Dublin North Oct ? Dec 1901.

There?s a marriage for a Mary Josephine Lawler in Athy in Jul-Sept 1921 and also another in Dublin North in Jan ? Mar 1921.

I think this is Kathleen in 1911, staying with some Coogan relatives (who I think must be of John Lawler's sister Susanna):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Arran_Quay/Arran_Quay/59047/

thanks again. lucy's death is a bit of a mystery maybe buried in backyard (kidding) .  I think that is lucy living with susanna coogan as she was the youngest and would have been only 16 in 1911. I have found another son william in 1911 census also horse trainer 25 at time house 1 common hall lane kilkenny no 1.

all the other children were old enough to be working in 1911. My mother cannot work out why ellie at 37 her mother margaret at 31 and lucy 25 came to australia. we are beginning to think they came out at an earlier date than 1919. but we will have to trace that by shipping in australia.

thanks again for your help

colleen

thanks again. lucy's death is a bit of a mystery maybe buried in backyard (kidding) .  I think that is lucy living with susanna coogan as she was the youngest and would have been only 16 in 1911. I have found another son william in 1911 census also horse trainer 25 at time house 1 common hall lane kilkenny no 1.

all the other children were old enough to be working in 1911. My mother cannot work out why ellie at 37 her mother margaret at 31 and lucy 25 came to australia. we are beginning to think they came out at an earlier date than 1919. but we will have to trace that by shipping in australia.

thanks again for your help

colleen