Searching for Hamill or Cullin

Shelagh,

It can be very difficult tracing someone without knowing what parish they came from. Birth registration didn?t start in Ireland till 1864 and prior to that you are reliant on church records. However not all the RC parishes in Co Antrim have records that go back to the period you need (ie first half of the 19^th century) and of those that do still exist, not all are on-line.

I have looked at rootsireland (which has some records). It?s a subscription site. They do have a Henry Hamill married to a Susan m 1838 plus or minus 5 years. However her surname does not appear to be Cullin (or variants). There?s baptism records of John & William to Henry & Susan, but not for Margaret or Ellen. Again the mother?s maiden name does not appear to be Cullin but you would need to pay to find out what it was.

One possible avenue is Poor Law records. Many Irish migrants to England claimed under the Poor Law and if the records survive, they can contain the person?s parish of origin, as well as some biographical information. If the Poor Law records for Barrow still exist, it might be worth checking them. (Try the county record office).

I looked for a Henry Hamill death in Co Antrim. The name Henry Hamill itself is very common in Northern Ireland and there?s dozens of them. However by narrowing it to Co Antrim and to someone born around 1814 or earlier, there was only one. He died on 22.3.1876, born c 1806. Death registered in Ballymena. Might be worth viewing that to see if he was a shoemaker. (Death registration didn?t start in Ireland till 1864, so if your Henry died before that it will be very hard to trace it).

You can view the certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the ?search registrations? option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

(You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs ?2 to a view a certificate).

Elwyn

Elwyn,

Thank you so much for your quick reply and all the info,  its really helpful.  I've been on the Ancestry website but can't find the Henry Hamill marriage to Susan in 1838 -  does  rootsireland have access to more Irish records than Ancestry?

I've been in touch with Barrow records office too, and they have records from the union and workhouse, it'll mean a trip up there sometime to find out more.  Thanks for that tip.  I'll look into the Henry Hamill death record that you found, its difficult not even knowing if he was in England or Ireland, he is noted on my great grandmother's marriage certificate in Ulverston (near Barrow), but I guess that doesn't mean he was actually present.  I noticed on one census, Susan puts her occupation as 'labourer's wife' although Henry put 'shoemaker' on Ellen's marriage cert, so maybe he was moving around and doing different jobs. 

Many thanks for your help,

Shelagh

Shelagh, 

Yes , rootsireland has different records to ancestry. They have a lot more church records and so presumably that is why this family is on roots but not on Ancestry. Roots don?t have all possible church records on their site, and of course quite a lot of church  records have been lost over the years.

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn,
I took your advice, thanks so much for that - I joined RootsIreland, and straight away found Henry and Susan's marriage in Duneane RC church, Ballymena, 16th May 1835! This record told me that I had the wrong spelling for Susan's maiden name, it should be Scullin (not 'cullen' as her brother had written in later censuses). I then found their daughter Ellen's baptism at the same church in 1846.

I've tried looking for Henry in the same district on Griffiths to try and find where they lived, but there are so many Hamills its impossible to know which is the right one.

I'm not sure about the death record you mention, as Susan put herself as 'widowed' on the 1871 census in England. He must have died between 1851-71 going by Susan's census entries. They all disappear for a time in 1861 too - not helpful!

If this new information on place/dates/names helps at all, I'd be really grateful for any further pointers? I've also joined and written a message on the Duneane parish message board.

Thanks again for your help
Shelagh

Shelagh,

Glad you found the marriage. Scullin, plus variants eg Scullion, is a very common surname in the general area around Toomebridge. You say that the marriage took place at Duneane RC church, Ballymena. Something?s not quite right there. Duneane and Ballymena are different parishes, about 10 miles apart. (Ballymena is in the RC parish of Kirkinriola).

The main RC chapel in Duneane in the 1800s was (and still is) at Moneyglass, near Toome, though there is a second one at Cargin which would also have been in use in the 1830s. Both have graveyards and both are full of Scullins and Scullions. I know from personal experience, as I live locally. However a shoemaker or labourer was unlikely to have had a gravestone.

My hunch would be that your family married in Duneane rather than Ballymena because Scullin etc is so common around the Toome area. (There is even a parish of Ballyscullion nearby).

You can check by looking at the RC parish records for Duneane. There?s a copy in PRONI in Belfast and also in the National Library in Dublin. NLI are going to put their copies on-line free next month, so I suggest you wait till then and search them. That should resolve where the marriage and baptisms took place. Whether or not there will be a townland given is debatable. Marriage records from that era rarely have townlands. Occasionally RC baptism records from the 1840s do but mostly they don?t. Which then makes it extremely difficult to trace the Scullins, especially with such a common name.

A shoemaker or labourer would work from a small cottage and so wouldn?t necessarily be listed in Griffiths. In any event Griffiths for Duneane was compiled in 1862 and it?s not certain Henry was in Ireland at that time, though he might have been.

Having said that Henry might have had other family who are listed in Griffiths. Assuming he too came from Duneane, I notice that the only Hamills listed in that parish in 1862 all lived in Ballydonnelly. John Hamill had a 19 acre farm (plot 26a) and sublet an agricultural labourer?s cottage and garden on it to James Hamill (plot 26b). Nearby William Hamill had an ag labs house (plot 16c) on Robert Chesney?s farm (plot 16a). Those properties today are adjacent to the Ballydonnelly and Ballymatoskerty roads, between Toome and Randalstown.

Curiously there?s a Henry Hamill living there in 1901 but he?s Baptist, single and too young to be the man who married Susan.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Toome_Upper/Ballydonnelly/941939/

Though the 1851 census gives Felix?s place of birth as Ireland, the 1871 says it was Fleetwood, and that is borne out by a birth registered there in Fylde district, in Apr ? Jun 1848 (Vol 21, page 483). So the family must have moved to England between 1846 and 1848. It might be worth getting Felix?s birth certificate to see what Henry?s occupation was then.

If there were no more children after Felix, then perhaps Henry died around that time? There?s a couple of Henry Hamill deaths registered in Liverpool 1851 and 1861. Have you investigated those? (No ages given).

Elwyn