Andrew Logan c1705 - 1788

Bill,

You don’t say what denomination Andrew was though from his name I’d assume Presbyterian. Neither of the 2 Inver parishes has any records for the 1700s. Indeed very few parishes anywhere in Ireland have records from that period.

If Andrew was Presbyterian then that, and his Scottish surname, would strongly point to Scottish ancestry. Ireland was heavily settled by Scots in the 1600s when, according to many accounts, at least 100,000 Scots settled in the country (mostly in the counties of Ulster, which includes both Inver in Antrim and Inver in Donegal, though there would have been more around Inver in Antrim). The migration started around 1606 but rose to a peak in the 1690s when there was a famine in Scotland. However by the 1720s people were moving on again, for a combination of reasons (bad prices for crops and linen, some political restrictions on Presbyterians and high rents for farmers and tenants).

So the picture that emerges – and one that was typical for many other early migrants – was of coming over from Scotland in the mid to late 1600s and then moving on to the US by 1730. So Andrew’s family may only have lived in Ireland for one or two generations.

You could try DNA testing to find your family origins but obviously you are probably more likely to get a match with someone in Scotland than in Ireland for the historical reasons I have outlined.

Elwyn:  Thank you very much for the quick reply.  I was afraid that a lack of records might be the answer, as it has also been with several of my Scottish lines, but it was worth a shot.

I don't know Andrew's religious affiliation but since he married his Dutch wife in the Dutch Reformed Church in Albany, I have to assume he was not Catholic back in Ireland.  But stranger things have happened in the New World.  If your premise is correct that he was more likely to have been an Ulster Scot instead of Irish, is there any particular place you can steer me to find those records?  Are they in the National Archives in Dublin by any chance?  Or are they also largely gone to your knowledge?

Thank you again for taking the time to assist.

Bill

Bill,

In many cases the records never existed. In the early years few Presbyterian congregations had a church, and it was the late 1600s before they built the first ones, but even then precious few seem to have kept any records. Some did though. There are about 8 Presbyterian churches in Co Antrim which have records for at least part of the 1700s. But that's porbably out of about 150 chruches. The surviving records are nearly all in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. The churches, with start dates of their records,  are Antrim 1st Presbyterian (1675); Lisburn (1689); Belfast Rosemary St (1723) Larne Non Subscribing (that's near Inver so should interest you) (1720); Ballymoney 1st (1751); Carnmoney (1708); Cullybackey (1727 Presbyterian Historical Society have the only copy); Rosemary St Belfast Non Subscribing (1757), All Souls Belfast (1771) & Templepatrick Non Subscribing (1793). 

I'd be very surpised if your family were not Ulster Scots. Logan is not an Irish name.

 

 

Thank you Elwyn. Your insight is very helpful.  I will see what I might be able to track down in Belfast.

Bill

Bill  Andrew Logan is my 5g grandfather  --  I too am looking for data concerning his parentage --- have good data thru his wife alidia, down thru son Johannes (John) and further to my generation

Pls share any leads

Carroll Logan Crowther

crowthercarroll@gmail.com

Carroll:  It is nice to hear from a Logan cousin.  I will be happy to share any leads I find and I hope you will do the same.  Andrew has been maddeningly hard for me to locate in Ireland and I am sure you have had a similar experience.  Hopefully there will be a breakthrough at some point.

Bill

(William Logan McDonald III)

Hi! I'm John Logan! Andrew Logan was my 5th g grandfather. I would really like to get in on this. Please include me in on this. :)

Hello cousins! I'll be headed to Ireland in June and July, any new info on Andrew Logan? I'm descended from his son Henry!

John

We were in Antrim in September and again in January. You will love Northern Ireland! I found a reference to Andrew's parents after we returned. There was a reference to Ballymoney.

 

Andrew was son of John and Margaret Logan, born around 1670. Margaret reportedly died in Virginia.  Andrew came through Va on way to Carolinas. Logan's settled near Charlotte, but lost their land when NC/SC line was resurveyed. From there, they went to Abbeville district, now Greenwood, SC. They built first cabin in the area, now moved to 96 Historic Site. My ancestor was Francis, who fought at Nattle of 96, then moved to Ruthefordton, NC. Logan family is buried on property now owned by cousins.

 

 

 

Another descendant of Andrew's is John Logan, a physician who wrote History of S.C. Upcountry.

I have not been able to trace Logan's back to Scotland, but there is a link. Would love to hear from anybody who has found it.

Logan is a pretty common name in Northern Ireland, especially around Co. Antrim. Looking at the 1901 census there were 2168 in Ireland, of which 899 lived in Co. Antrim.

In the 1600s somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 Scots moved to Ireland (at least 10% of the entire Scottish population). They mostly settled in the province of Ulster and Co Antrim was particularly heavily settled. (It’s only about 13 miles across from Scotland to Co. Antrim so they didn’t have very far to go). So large numbers of people named Logan probably arrived in the 1600s. Some may have been related. Many not. Looking at the 1841 Scottish census (the oldest) there were 3175 Logans there then. So that gives you an idea of how common the name was (and still is) in both places.

Unfortunately, in the 1600s when these migrations happened (if moving 13 miles can really be called migration) no-one was keeping any records and so there are no details of where most came from. The odd family has documents that show they come from, say, Ayrshire, but that’s pretty rare.  DNA might give you a match with a family whose roots are in Scotland, though most of the common commercial tests don’t go back the 400 years you really need. Otherwise it’s pretty hard to work out where your ancestors may have come from in Scotland. It’s fairly safe to say most came from the Lowlands or Border areas rather than the Highlands but beyond that it can be difficult to narrow the field, especially for Antrim which was not part of the main Plantation of Ireland.

Is there some documentation showing Andrews parents as John  and Margaret? 
Thank you

Loganman

 

"We were in Antrim in September and again in January. You will love Northern Ireland! I found a reference to Andrew's parents after we returned. There was a reference to Ballymoney."

Can you elaborate on the reference to Ballymoney, and the reference to Andrew's parents? Thank you ! I'm not sure who posted that, so, I apologize for not using your name!

 

Hello to all here, I too recently found that I am a descendant of Andrew Logan's. Until a couple of years ago I did not know who my biological father was. In 2018 I did a DNA test through Ancestry.com. I have been researching and building a pedigree for here in the States but have been unable to find documentation to indicate who Andrew's actual parents were. There have been many John Logan's referenced, each with a slightly different year of birth and married to different women so, since all the info in the ancestry sites is so convoluted it's difficult to know which is correct without any documented evidence. Let me say that I'm very excited to reach out and touch, as it were, my cousins across the pond! I am aware that Logan's originated in Scotland and have a very rich history there, and since my DNA has indices for Scotland, Ireland, England and Wales in addition to US that doesn't really help narrow down which of the Logan's Andrew descends from. All that being said...I would like to address a question by an earlier member of this post thread, and I apologize if you have already received or been made aware of this. According to documents that I have found, Andrew did become a member of the Dutch Reformed Church in Albany where he met and married Alida/Lydia Pruyn. In my research I learned that the Dutch Reformed Church is a schism of the Calvinist sect and very similar to the Lutherans in belief and practice. I am aware that many Logan's, namely James Logan was Presbyterian and then followed the Quakers. I do not know or understand how the beliefs and /or practices of the Calvinist/Lutheran/Presbyterian/Quakers might be similar or different. Anyone who knows, I would welcome the info. Wikipedia can be quite tedious when doing research. LOL Thank you all, so much for your time and desire to help others find our way to our ancestors. Deb

Deb,

Logan is a fairly common name in Ireland, especially in Ulster. (In the 1901 census there were 2168 in Ireland). It’s unlikely they are all related though some will be obviously. The problem that you (and others researching the 1700s in Ireland) are up against is that we just don't have any comprehensive records. Apart from a few major landholders, and the odd family with knowledge of their specific origins, we do not know who came over in the 1600s or specifically where they came from, though we know in broad terms which counties they originated.(The occasional Irish gravestone mentions a place of origin in Scotland. That's very rare but I have encountered it a few times). Once the Scots got to Ireland record keeping wasn't great either, and we didn't compile any lists when they starting leaving again in the 1700s. And of course some may only have lived in Ireland for a generation or two, perhaps just 50 years, further reducing the chances of finding records.

Presbyterianism was founded in Scotland in the mid 1500s and brought to Ireland (and elsewhere) by Scots settlers. It was heavily influenced by John Calvin (1509 – 1564), a French theologian, who in turn had been heavily influenced by Martin Luther. Calvin was born Catholic but developed views that were incompatible with that denomination’s beliefs. For example, divine pre-destination. He also strongly disapproved of the arts, save for music, but even that could not involve musical instruments. He sent out pastors to the rest of Europe and his beliefs led to the foundation of not only the Presbyterian church in Scotland but also the Dutch Reformed church and the Puritans in England. So these denominations all have a common origin.

If you were to attend a Reformed Presbyterian church service in Scotland or Ireland you would notice that there is no organ, piano or other musical instruments, and the only music is psalms (no hymns). A precentor stands in front of the congregation and leads the singing. No female Ministers and no woman may sit on the Kirk Session. They tend to favour a strict interpretation of the gospels. If something is not expressly allowed in the bible, then they generally won’t allow it. There is no episcopacy in the Presbyterian church. So no Bishops, Archbishops and Cardinals etc. No hierarchy to control the congregations (though the various Ministers do meet for obvious administrative purposes). No icons or religious imagery, and generally a plain building. Communion (mass) is a special occasion and only held two or three times a year.

Quakers however have completely different beliefs (and don't even have a Minister to officiate), and apart from obviously not following the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church would not normally be seen as having very much in common with Presbyterianism. If your ancestors switched from Presbyterianism to Quaker beliefs, that sounds like a sharp right turn. Presumably they had decided to try something new.