Dympna Wynne-Morter

Dympna:

Welcome to ireland Reaching Out!

I will alert our parish liaison in Bailieborough that you have posted a message.

Roger McDonnell

Thank you it is most appreciated.  Dympna.

Hi Dympna,

Thank you for your message. Is your grandfather Joseph McPhillips? There is no Joseph McPhillips in Killann baptism register or Co's Cavan or Meath +/-10 years of 1899 on www.rootsireland.ie. The only child born to a James, is James on 12 June 1903, at Bailieborough workhouse to  Mary Brady. I didn't find  a marriage cert for James McPhillips or Mary Brady either.

Can you search www.familysearch.org or http://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp for a civil birth cert or can you find the family on the census at http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/  . There is no J McP in Bailieboro workhouse in 1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Bailieboro/Tandragee/1053525/ . There are a few McP boys on the 1911 census, but it missing the first name initial http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Bailieborough/Tanderagee/316316/ . See what you make of the original return.

Did any of the family remain in the Bailieborough area. I'm from the next parish Moynalty, Carmel Reilly is the parish laision for Bailieboro .

Carmel, can you look at this. Dympna is on the future learn genealogy course with me and I request she log her message here to get local guidance.

Regards

Catherine

Hi Catherine, first of all may I say thank you for your help it is much appreciated. You ask the question is my Grandfather Joseph McPhillips, I am beginning to wonder! I did not know my Grandfathers name when I started out on this journey a few years ago, as he was known as Pop throughout the family. I only new a few things about him other than my few memories from my early childhood, he had lost some of his fingers on his hand, query in my head was this maybe from the war, I have tried to find records but unsuccessful. I tried looking for my Grandmothers records Ellen King which I found in the civil indexes, then went on to find her marriage to Grandad, registration no. 1672715. Later on I found her with her Mother, Brothers and Sisters and her Mother in law in the National Archives  Census of Ireland 1911, living at a house 6.1 in Bailieborough Town (Bailieborough Cavan). Which confirmed that this was the correct record for my Grandmother as I knew my aunts and uncles names from when I was younger. The only reason I am telling you all this is because my Father told me that my Grandmother and Grandfather had known each other since they were roughly about eight or nine years old, so therefore it is possible that they lived near to each other. Somewhere in the back of my memory I remember my Father telling me that there was some Scottish connection, so I looked at James McPhillips who were born in Cavan going to Scotland. In the Scottish 1901 Census records I have found a James McPhillips born around 1870 in Co. Cavan, Married to Kate ? also born Co. Cavan born around 1871 they had three children Mary b. 1890, Owen b. 1897, Joseph born 1900 they lived at 106 Kidston Street, Govan Huthesontown, Lanarkshire, Scotland. But I am having trouble tracing their travel from Ireland to Scotland, as i was wondering if maybe I could find this connection maybe that would confirm if this was the correct family. Thank you for the other search addresses and I will have a look at these later today and for the rest of the week this is definitely giving me some homework. I hope to catch up with you in the course which I am enjoying and I hope that you are too. Thank you Carmel if you get time to look at this info for me. Love and hugs to you all. Dympna

Hi Dympna,

I'm really enjoying the course and spending a lot longer on it than originally planned. I've done a few of FL course before this one. I’m picking up some good tips and learning new sources. I'd love if some Irish colleges would do a course concentrating on Irish genealogical sources. People coming from countries where they have a census every 10 years and very details civil records, hit a brick with Irish records nearly immediately, especially if they are not tracing catholic ancestors. With the age of the internet, it is so much easier now to access information, if you know where to look. My uncle did research in the 1980s, and we have no idea how he got as much information on a distant UK branch. 

If your ever looking to find the name of the other party to an Irish marriage cert, www.irishgenealogy.ie are updating there database with the spouse name. Otherwise on that website or www.familysearch.org, match the following fields - district, year, quarter if applicable, page number, volume number. Pop was a common pet name.  His headstone inscription if any, civil certs or church records should confirm his legal first name.

I'm thinking back to week of the course - how reliable is the info on the civil marriage cert? For now, we'll have to assume James is the correct fathers name and concentrate on him to get over Josephs invisible baptism and birth records.

1. Does the marriage cert state if James is deceased, alive or blank ie should be alive? Maybe review death certs for any James born 18 to 60 years before 1899 and try find an obituary or death notice.
2. Children naming pattern in Ireland was:
   • first son after the paternal grandfather father.
   • next son after maternal grandfather if first son is still alive.
   • first daughter after maternal grandmother - so much for the family sticking to that pattern in house 6.1 .
   • next daughter after paternal grandmother if first daughter is still alive.
   • does this pattern fit the sequence of Joseph and Ellen child(rens) names?
3. If any of the Kings descendants are still in Bailieboro, they may pin point you’re McPhillips. 

Your grandfather may have lost his fingers in the war, an industrial accident or some other accident or medical problem that required amputation. Could an accident generate a newspaper report and or court case?

If you are having problems tracing the James McPhillips family from Scotland to Ireland, is it possible to trace Scottish records forward to see is that Joseph still in Scotland during your timeframe for Joseph.

If you are on facebook, search for Bailieborough Heritage Society. The big picture at the top of the page is Bailieboro town, probably early 1900s. It is taken from the Church of Ireland, belfy looking up Main Street toward the Market Square. I'll check Lesile McKeague book for a date. The photographer should be James A Coleman. If this link opens, you can check out more of Coleman’s photos of the town in the “Coleman Collection” Cavan Co Library - http://www.cavanlibrary.ie/Default.aspx?StructureID_str=107

I don't seem to be getting notifications of replies to this thread. My e-mail is moynalty@irelandxo.com if you want to drop a line to it, we can work from there.

Regards

Catherine

Dympna, sorry, one correction to above - the King children are named in the traditional Irish naming pattern. Ellen King's mother in law is the paternal grandmother.

Catherine

Thank you Catherine, for all you help and suggestions (loads of homework) I will email you this afternoon with info and answer to you questions. Dympna

Thank you Catherine, for all you help and suggestions (loads of homework) I will email you this afternoon with info and answer to you questions. Dympna