Searching for Holmes

It may help to mention that in the Ireland Tithe Book I found a Cecil Holmes Esquire living in Munadurthlaugh, Kilrush, Wexford.  The Tithe Book covers dates between 1823 to 1837.  Could Cecil be a nephew of Patrick Holmes?  Cecil was an Esquire and Patrick was a laborer, at least in the 1820s when he was admitted to Chelsea, so I'm not sure how likely they'd be related.  Cecil was the only Holmes I found in the Tithe Book for Wexford.

Hello, Ryan.  Patrick Holmes was my ggg-grandfather and I have been researching him for a while.  I have also seen Moses Holmes nearby in New Brunswick.  I do not believe they are related, although one is certainly tempted to believe so. I have never seen birthplace info for Moses. Was he born in Wexford also?  The main reason I do not believe they are related is that Patrick Holmes was Catholic and Moses was Protestant.  I am curious about your mention of Patrick in Chelsea Hospital records.  Where did you find those records?  Is there anything more than his being from Wexford and a "laborer"?  I would be curious.  I have connected with a woman from the Holmes line in Wexford who believes Patrick is from her family line, since there were only a couple of Catholic Holmes families historically in Wexford.  Her line is from Bannow originally.  It'd be great to trade info and/or otherwise connect over the Holmes family lines!  

Best,

Patrick Doherty

Seattle 

Hello Patrick,

It's very nice to connect with you.  Thank you for replying to my message board post.  I was starting to think no one would.  Alas, I believe you are right to suggest Patrick and Moses were unrelated.  I was hoping that the difference in religion could be explained by the turmoil of the region at the time and the separation of time between immigration.  It seems my Holmes line may have come over very early, which only makes it that much harder to track down.  Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to me that any of Patrick's sons had any living male heirs.  Do you know of any?  I had hoped to find one to compare ydna tests.  I traced some of his daughters' marriages to Minnesota I believe.  There was a large number of New Brunswick settlers that left for the west in a short span of time.  Interestingly, I believe I saw a census record for Ann Holmes, born Fletcher, that indicated Church of England as her religion late in life, but I may have her confused with someone else.

I believe I used the LDS website to locate Patrick Holmes's military records.  I searched LDS again, and now it appears that viewing the images of these records requires an account with FindMyPast.com.  The record set at FindMyPast is called British Army Service Records with the series titles:  WO 22 - Royal Hospital Chelsea: returns of payment of Army and other pensions 1842-1883 as well as WO 23 - Royal Hospital Chelsea: admission books, registers, and papers 1702-1876.  If you go to this site and search under categories for Military, armed forces & conflict and then Service Records, you should be able to find 11 records.  They include age at enrollment, birthplace, profession, and even a description of his appearance.  Not sure it will work but here is the link for the results: http://search.findmypast.co.uk/results/united-kingdom-records-in-milita…

Ancestry also has one of these records under the category of UK, Royal Hospital, Chelsea, Regimental Registers of Pensioners Who Served in Canada, 1713-1882.  They don't have all the records that FindMyPast has and it takes their Fold3 upgrade to view the images.  If you have an Ancestry account, you can view the records I've collected for Patrick in my Holmes Family tree.  They are upload as media files.  There is a map of land lots and a census of the military settlement that shows Patrick's level of development on his lot.  Finally, I have a copy of a 1999 email from a Katherine Schieber who believed she was a descendant of Patrick Holmes attached to his profile.

Even if we're not related, our ancestors were neighbors.  I'm so happy to find another genealogist who's researched the Holmes surname with regards to New Brunswick.  I'd love to chat more with you on the subject.  Maybe you know something of Moses Holmes that I don't.

Take care and hope to talk more soon,

Ryan Holmes

Hi my name is Billy Stafford and I live in south County Wexford next door to the Parish of Bannow where some members of the Holmes family still live. It would be intetesting to do a DNA comparsion with your families. It was not uncommon in Ireland during the 18th and 19th centuries for one half of a family be RC and the other to be C of Irl as RCs could not own property and it was often held in trust for them by their C of Irl cousins. Records in the early 1700s in Irl are very hard to find as most Irish records were lost when the Customs House in Dublin was burned in 1922. Catholic church baptismal and marriage records have come on line recently and contain lots of info. They are very time comsuming and difficult to read sometimes
They can be accessed through the National Archives web site. I hope this is of some help to your families. If I can be of help here, please let me know.

Hello Billy,

Thank you so much for your insight and offer of help.  It is much appreciated.  So I can say with confidence that my Holmes line goes back to Moses Holmes JR. who fought for the 104th in the War of 1812.  Patrick Holmes fought in the 98th Foot.  I have tested my ydna at FamilyTreeDNA and have discovered a cousin through Moses Holmes JR.  I've also tested autosomal dna at FamilyTree, but their data base for that is small compared to Ancestry.  I'm waiting on Ancestry dna results.  If Patrick Doherty has tested than we could see if we share a common ancestor which would help but not confirm that Patrick Holmes and Moses Holmes JR. were related.  I also wonder if I have any matches to the Canadian Staffords that might indicate a close community of Irish from Wexford.  Billy, do you have any family from New Brunswick?  Of course, what we really need is a male Holmes from Wexford to test his ydna at FamilyTree.  It would be a great help if you could help me make contact with the Holmes family from Wexford.  To be sure, your insight into the religious history of Ireland is priceless.  I didn't know that within the same family you could have RC and CoE.  Thank you for that.

I hope to talk with you more,

Ryan Holmes

Many thanks Ryan, I will make contact with some of the Holmes males, there are 3 that I can think of locally. I dont know if any of the Canadian Staffords are in New Brunswick as I cant find any details for them. I know that William E Stafford imigrated to Canada circa 1919/20 when he was demobbed from British Army after First World War. He served with the Northumberland Fuissiliers (Tyneside Irish) where he reached the rank of Captain. He got in trouble here with local republicians and was forced to leave Ireland. He went to Canada where he may have had relations as the timber to build the house I live in was sent home from Canada circa 1850. I believe he has a grandson still living in Canada but so far I have been unable to find him. I will keep looking.
Best of luck with your project. There are also Holmes still living in north Wexford in the Castletown/Gorey area.
Cheers Billy.

Thanks a lot, Billy, for your reply.  I have been in touch with and met Margaret Crosbie, who lives nearby and descends from the  Holmes families.  We have not been able to confirm with 100% certainty that we descend from the same Patrick Holmes line, but she is also of the few Catholic Holmes families, we so think we're onto something.  I am not sure where Patrick Holmes was born, but it's possible he was born in Bannow.  He was born ca. 1787/88 and joined the British forces and fought in the Napoleanic Wars, eventually mustering out in New Brunswick where he lived the rest of his life.  Perhaps there is some "family lore" among the Holmeses in that area that might recall Patrick...?  It was several generations ago, so it's also possible all trace of that line of the Holmes family is now forgotten. Or, alternatively, he may have derived from different family lines - not from Bannow.  Anyway, whatever you can find out will, of course, be much appreciated! 

Thanks again and best wishes, 

Patrick Doherty

Seattle

Hi Patrick.
I have done a search of Rathangan burial records but no Holmes appears in the records. Rathangan is next parish to Bannow. I have also searched records for the 1798 rebellion in Wexford as the timeline matches but unfortunately no Holmes appears in executed, transported or held prisoner records. It was not uncommon for rebels to have joined English army to avoid transportation to Australia. Alas nothing turned up but I will keep searching.
Cheers Billy.

Hi Billy:  Thanks for looking more into the Bannow-area Holmeses.  I only have been directed to Bannow through Margaret Crosbie's hunch that "my" Holmses and hers are the same since we're both the only Catholic Holmeses.  But in his military induction papers he was listed as being born in Wexford, Wexford.  I have looked through Wexford Town parish records and didn't find any sign of him either.  It's so frustrating!  I'll be in Ireland as of tomorrow - for a week or so.  But I'm not sure we'll be making it over to Wexford.  My cell is +1-206-854-4300 if you find any info you'd like to share while I'm there! 

Cheers

Patrick 

Hi Ryan, My Mother is From Ballyfrory in Co Wexford. Her mother was Mary Holmes. I have cousins who still live in the area. Her brothers were Anthony and Phillip  Holmes. I don’t know if this is of any use? David Williamson.

Hi again, Billy (and others);  Just checking in again regarding Patrick Holmes and my Holmes family line.  I have started to wonder if in fact Patrick was RC.  He was when he lived in New Brunswick, but perhaps he was born COI.  I just wonder why he's not the Wexford RC parish records if his military (and other) records state rather emphatically that he was born in Wexford, Wexford.  Perhaps he didn't recall exactly where he was born but grew up there. St Iberius in Wexford is a COI church, I believe, and has records that go as far back as 1788, but they don't appear to be online.  Does anyone know?  Other COI churches? 

I also wonder if the DNA I submitted to 23&Me and Ancestry could be used for the purposes you mentioned, Billy? 

Anyway, reconnecting and continuing the search!

Best,

Patrick 

Greetings, Billy, and others.  3 years have gone by since we last corresponded, and I am wondering if there has been any progress on our Patrick Holmes connection.  As I mentioned, my DNA has been submitted to 23&Me and Ancestry, so perhaps you all could let me know if you have submitted yours to either of those also?

Thanks and best wishes,

Patrick