Murphys Of Kildorrey, Glanworth, Cork

Mary:

I will alert our parish liaison in Kildorrery about your message.

Roger McDonnell

Roger,

Thank you.

Mary

Mary, I tend to think that Kildorrery was a district rather than a parish. I research family in both Glanworth (where I have Roches) and Kildorrery so noticed your message. I found your family marriage in Glanworth RC parish. Although Kildorrery is given as the birthplace of your Patrick in 1868, the birth record says the family was from Cloghleafin, Glanworth. He was baptized in the RC parish of Glanworth. I don't know if this helps or not. You can find these two Baptismal and marriage records in the parish records on the National Library of Ireland website and you can find the birth record on this website: https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/  Just click onto "civil records." I hope this helps. Jan

Jan,

Thank you for your response to my message and suggestion I go to NLI. I apologize, I miswrote John and Honoras' wedding year. It should have been 1865.

Per DNA, I am somehow connected to the Roche family from this area. Are you aware of a Roche- Murphy connection prior to 1847 when Honora would have been born?

Mary

I am not aware of a Roche-Murphy connection before 1847. In my own family my connection begins in the 1870's. You might have to troll through parish records although I realize you can't be sure of which parish Honora was baptized in. I am not sure what you are using for the year of birth, but if you obtained it from a marriage or death record, very often the ages on those records were not accurate. The person was often older than reported. Also, the name Honora in that area is interchangeable with Hannah and occasionally Ann as well as Nano. There are probably other possibilities.

The handwriting is sometimes difficult to read, but I did notice there were some John Murphys who were having children baptized in Glanworth n the 1840's. In 1843 a John Murphy married a Johanna McDonald. The name of the male witness was James Roche. There was also a marriage that year between a John Murphy and a Mary (looks like) Hannah. In this marriage a Toby Roche was a witness. In 1844 a son Thomas was born to John Murphy and Honora Condon, a Thomas to John Murphy and Eliza _______, and a son Michael to John Murphy and Honora (short name - could be something like Finn). In 1845 John Murphy and Kate Clifford had a daughter Bridget. John and Hannah Murphy were the sponsors. It looks as if their residence was in Cloughleafin. In 1846 John Murphy and Joanna (could be Connors) had a child, and in the same year John Murphy and Ellen Neil had a son John. It looks as though you have your work cut out for you.

There is a site where you have to pay for information, but it might be worth checking that site so you could get a jump-start. You could search for a Honora, daughter of John Murphy, born approximately 1847 (but give yourself a wide range), probably in the Diocese of Cloyne, Cork. I can't recall if it is Rootsireland or not. Good luck, Jan

Jan,

You are awesome trying to find my Honora. I have tried NLI and Roots Ireland with no luck. I have followed through to the 1901 census and discovered I am following the wrong path.

I know years fluctuate. I base my 1846 year on her death record and the 1901 and 1911 census from Ballinvreena, Limerick, household John Fogarty.

I spent today going through NLI with no luck. Maybe she was not registered.

Thank you for all your efforts- Mary

Jan-

On Ancestry I found the following record-

Name: Honora Murphy
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1843
Baptism Date: 26 Aug 1843
Baptism Place: Glanworth and Ballindangan, Cork, Ireland
Parish Variants: Balindangan, Ballindangan, Glanworth
Diocese: Cloyne
Father: John Murphy

Mother: Kate Clifford

Sponsors: Daniel Murphy and Margaret Clifford

In addition to Bridget and Honora, they also had a son John in 1847. Given Bridget's address was Cloughleafin and Honora's son Patrick's address is listed as Cloghleafin maybe this is the family I am looking for. I would appreciate your thoughts.

Thank you- Mary

Mary, I tend to use the words "possibly," "maybe" or "probably" until I find proof of something. I do tend to think that the mention of the townland Cloughleafin is significant and that this is likely your family, but if it were my family, I would look for further proof. I notice they had Johanna who was baptized April 9, 1852, in Glanworth with sponsors Thomas Lane and Bridget Murphy. The mother was named Catherine for that record. Daniel was baptized in Glanworth on July 8, 1854, with sponsors James Condon and Mary Lane.     

If (the big "if") Honora was the oldest, and IF the family followed the usual naming pattern (I have found lots of exception in my own line), John's parents might have been John and Bridget. Since a Bridget Murphy served as a sponsor, that lends credence to Bridget being a Murphy name. I don't know if you have found any Clifford names as sponsors. I wonder if that means Kate was from another parish or if she did not have siblings (or many siblings). In any case, I checked the Tithes and did find a John Murphy there. He was in the townland of Cloughleafin, which at that time was in the civil parish of Ballydeloughy. In Griffith's that townland was in the civil parish of Kilguallane. There was a John Murphy there too - possibly John, husband of Kate. I did do a quick search for a marriage between Kate and John. If Honora was the oldest child, that would limit somewhat the years for a marriage. I might have missed such a marriage if it was in Glanworth. If the marriage is not there, it indicates Kate was from another parish. I also noticed that some of the sponsors were probably neighbors since the surnames appeared in Cloughleafin. I don't know if any of the spouses were Murphy by birth or even Clifford by birth.

I hope this helps a little. Jan

I meant so spell Kilgullane.

Jan,
Thank you for your research. Honora's (1843) sponsors were Margaret Clifford and Daniel Murphy. One of her brother John's (1847) sponsors was John Tobin. I recently found an old posting on Ancestry.com message board-

Thomas TOBIN and Jane CLIFFORD lived across the road from each other. They were from Cloughleafin, Co., Cork, Ireland. Cloughleafin is in Kilgullane civil parish, Brigown church parish about seven miles from Mitchelstown on the Road from Mitchelstown to Mallow. I visited in 1987 and have pictures of both of their houses. The Mitchelstown Church records note their marriage on 16 August 1823. Their first child, Ellen was born in Ireland on 28 Feb 1825 and is noted in the Mitchelstown Church records.

Jane might be a sibling/ cousin of Kate's father. I just subscribed to RootsIreland and will see if there is a connection. I also will try to contact the person who wrote the posting. I have not found a marriage record either for Kate Clifford and John Murphy.

In addition to their son Patrick (1868) birth address in Cloughleafin, John Fogarty and Honora Murphys' daughter Bridget (1866) address was their.

I will let you know if I discover anything- Mary

Thanks for the update! You might be able to find the Murphy-Clifford marriage on Rootsweb since that group can check several parishes at once. It's possible that whichever parish Kate came from doesn't have records that go back to the 1840-1843 time period. Fingers crossed the marriage IS available. You had mentioned the name Roche. My Roches were from Castleterry, Ballindangan, Cork and spread out to Flemingstown, Lisleagh (both of Kilgullane parish), Ballyadock and later into Kildorrery. I have a Clifford marriage in my family but in a later generation. In 1854 my gggrandfather's sister, Mary Roche, of Castleterry, Ballindangan, married Richard Coughlan who was from the Ballyadock/Flemingstown area. Their daughter Hanora/Nanore Coughlan married Michael Clifford of Garrane, Mitchelstown in 1889.

Best of luck with finding more information.
Jan

Jan, I know it has been a while. My DNA with descendants from Australia supports that my great grandparents John Fogarty and Norah Murphy connect to Cloughleafin, Cork. In the next year, I plan to visit the area. On RootsIreland their wedding info and three of their children show they were in Glanworth Parish. I was told that they might have attended Ballindangan Church since it was closer to Cloughleafin. I have reached out to both parishes without a response. One of their sons, Patrick (17 January 1868) is identified living in Ballindangan (sp) on NLI. Do you know which parish connects to the Murphys of Cloughleafin??

Thank you- Mary

Mary, we know that Kilgullane civil parish is in the RC parish of Glanworth and Ballindangan. Looking at a map, I can see that Cloughleafin is closer geographically to Ballindangan, where there is a chapel (the one attended by my Roche family) than to Glanworth. I checked the set of microfilmed records for Ballindangan in the 1870's and can see that there were some residents of Cloughleafin who had their children baptized there so my educated guess is that your family would have attended the chapel in Ballindangan, but there is always the possibility that they chose to attend Mass at another chapel/church. I would think they would have chosen the closest church but just wanted to mention it is not a certainty.

Thank you for your response.
Regards- Mary