Smith/Smyth

Dear Patti:

Many thanks for your query to Ireland Reaching Out and welcome!

That is great that you have made a connection through DNA testing.  It is a great resource to have when records are scarce. 

The Philip Smyth record that you refer to is below:

Name:     Philip Smyth     Date of Birth:     
           Date of Baptism:     01-Jun-1825
Address:         Parish/District:     CAVAN
Gender:     Male     County     Co. Cavan
        Denomination:     Roman Catholic
Father:     John Smyth     Mother:     Susan McDonald
Occupation:             
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:     Philip Skelly
    Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:     Johanna Ireland .

There is a Peter Smyth born in 1819 in Cavan.

Name:     Peter Smith     Date of Birth:     
           Date of Baptism:     03-Oct-1819
Address:         Parish/District:     CAVAN
Gender:     Male     County     Co. Cavan
        Denomination:     Roman Catholic
Father:     Edmund Smith     Mother:     Anne Leddy
Occupation:             
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:     Michael Brady
    Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:     Mary Brady .

There is a Peter Smyth born in 1825 in Cava.

Name:     Peter Smyth     Date of Birth:     
           Date of Baptism:     26-May-1825
Address:         Parish/District:     CAVAN
Gender:     Male     County     Co. Cavan
        Denomination:     Roman Catholic
Father:     Edward Smyth     Mother:     Judith Cusack
Occupation:             
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:     James Castles
    Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:     Mary Castles.

The above are all found on the Roots Ireland database and it might be worth your looking at that particular resource for further information.

If you have any further questions, please contact us.

Kind regards,

Jane.

Thank you, Jane. Many of my DNA matches have the name Brady in their family trees. It may just be a common name in Cavan, or it may be a clue. Our Peter Smith married in the Baptist church. Were there any parts of Cavan more likely to have Baptist churches? I suspect there weren't many. We also have a curious clue: Years after Peter Smith's death in 1885, a William Charles Rothwell (1877-1954) was added to his tombstone. A relative? I'll check Roots Ireland and Canada's vital statistics, but if anyone's looking for him, this is where he landed. 

Dear Patti:

Your new clues are very interesting and certainly worth pursuing!

Would you also consider creating a profile for Peter Smith for the Ireland XO Chronicles?  It would be worth doing so as many people will be reading them and other researchers for that family may be able to assist. 

Happy Easter to you!

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to get back to me.

Kind regards,

Jane.

Dear Patti,  

I proably don't have anymore to add to Jane's advice, but I will try.  The name Castles would also be known as Cassells. You might like to contact the Cavan Genealogy Service, they do charge a fee.  They can be contacted at cavangenealogy@eircom.net  They are part of Cavan County Council and are in the same buildig as Cavan Library, so they may have access to other information, unknown to me.

 With regard to the late Mr Rothwell he may have been a close neighbour, trusted employee or friend with no other family or he may be related.  If he emigrated from Ireland or England you may find him on http://libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger-result I did a quick search and there about 50 William Rothwell's on this site.

 I skimmed through circa 1700 Smyths in the 1901 Census, looking for a religion that was not Metodist, Presbyterian or Catholic and there is a family of Episopaleans.  They may be found here: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Tullyvin_East/Dr… a family headedup by Robert Smyth.  

Also John Smyth was the head of a family that declared themselves to be Brethern of Church of God http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Ballymachugh/Lis…  

In Cootehill, Coote the landlord, welcomed all faiths and as a result a multiplicity of faiths flourished this means that Cootehill would be a good location for the more different religions, though not exclusive http://www.geograph.ie/photo/1684619  

Now from what I have gathered Baptists were known locally as Dippers, because they were baptised by almost totally immersing themselves in water and were bible fundamentalists.  They had meeting houses as opposed to churches, recently wth the influx of people from other countries Baptist churches have sprung up in Ireland, but they would not be connected to the older groups. I was unable to find anything specific to Co. Cavan on them generally in Ireland I found some online sources that may be able to help you further & there are more:

https://www.tellingthetruth.info/publications_index/armstrong.php 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_by_Twos  

I hope this is of some use to you.

Regards Carmel

Dear Patti,

I have been in contact with another lady who has done a lot of research on Rothwells's.  I believe she may have an answer to William Charles Rothwell on your headstone, but she is double checking her research and waiting for documentation.

Can you wait?

Regards Carmel 

Excellent, Carmel. Yes, I can wait. Thanks! I am on the road in Southern California just now, but when I get home, I will write a profile of Peter Smith to post on the website. Thanks to all for your help; we may crack this mystery yet!    Regards, Patti

Patti 

Apologies for the delay re William Rothwell mentioned on headstone in New Westminster
Greater Vancouver Regional District , British Columbia, Canada . Certs had to  ordered and myths debunked ! 

The Headstone Inscription reads :

"Memory of Peter Smith
Born Nov 24, 1822 in Co Caven, Ireland
Died March 18, 1885
Also Almira Dewey Smith
Born April 22, 1823 in New York State
Died June 22, 1909
William Charles Rothwell 1877- 1954"

William died 11th January 1954 Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada - He was born 16 August 1874 in Mitchell, Ontario. to Andrew Rothwell & Sarah Fluke . William  was a contractor by trade and never married . He spent his working life between Washington USA &  Lacombe, Alberta , 

In hope  that it helps determine why William Charles was buried with the Smith's 

Andrew Rothwell was the son of Charles Rothwell  who originally settled  from Coolcullen Kilkenny to  Shrewsbury, Quebec.

Andrew Rothwell 
Birth: 27 JAN 1842 in Wolford Twp Ontario (We believe that the wrong birth date  was given by informant ) 
Death: 1926 in Lockhart, Alberta while living with elder  son Frank in Medicine Hat . 

Sarah Fluke was the second wife of Andrew Rothwell,  she married a Leech; was widowed and then married the widowed Andrew Rothwell.-  So far no  marriage of Andrew to a Sarah Fluke or Leach has been found . There is a  Sarah Fluke, 15, in 1851 Augusta Tp Census; then Sarah Leach, 33, in 1871 Leeds Front and Lansdowne Front with several children; then widowed and remarried to Andrew wrongly-trascribed as "Bathwell" in 1881 North Leeds and Grenville, Wolford. He was an older widower, and the couple had two children, one of whom was a William C. per the 1881 census., The  1891 census of Stafford, Renfrew North, Ontario for Andrew Rathwell. He is listed as "step pat" aged 81, born Ireland, with Sarah aged 59, born Ontario, Charles, aged 16 (it has a B in the "relation to head of family" and Mary Jane aged 14, with Sis as her relation remark.The marriage record of Mary Jane Rathwell, 19, of Alice Tp., Renfrew, born Wolford, married March 1897 in Pembroke, Renfrew, to William Carson, shows her parents as Sarah Fluke and Andrew Rathwell.  

Charles  1780–1846. of Shrewsbury, Canada was born Coolcullen Co Kilkenny .  He was among a group of 24 settlers who, according to the authorities, around 1822 "scattered themselves over the Township and [have] taken up the best of the land which of course will ruin the settlement and quite contrary to the Agent's intentions ".. Charles was the son of William Rothwell - Kilkenny . 

There are Rothwell's in Cavan Most are descendants of the Rothwell's of Kells area 

There were 2 church of Ireland baptisms in Baileborough 

Elizabeth Cather Rothwell  Birth: 27-Mar-1825 
    Baptism: 10-Apr-1825 

Jane Rothwell   
  Baptism: 06-Apr-1828 
 Parents Thomas Rothwell  Sarah Rothwell - 

The hunt is on to find out who Thomas & Sarah were - They are not obviously connected to the Meath Rothwell's - The question now is was Sarah nee Smith and was Thomas originally of Coolcullen ?
Watch this space ! 

J Rothwell - Cavan