William McGowan (1782 -1846) marriage to Rose Anne ?

Graeme:

Welcome to ireland Reaching Out!

I don't think you will find a record of John's baptism or the marriage record. Except for St. Anne's, all of the parishes in Belfast have records startin later than 1808. This guide will show you when records start by parish and where they are held or if they are destroyed. Go to Belfast and you will se ethe various parishes. Roots Ireland has the St. Anne's records and I did not find the baptismal record on that site.

https://www.ireland.anglican.org/cmsfiles/pdf/AboutUs/library/registers…

Roger McDonnell

Hi Roger

Thanks for info and register - it will be very useful.

Just to clarify -it's William's marriage to Rose Anne that I'm particularly interested in.  

I don't have John baptism either, but I do have his marriage newspaper announcement and public records office, marriage to Isabella MARSHALL  on 9 Feb 1835. -they married at the Newtownbreada Church which I'm guessing may have been Isabella MARSHALL's church.    I also have all of John childrens birth dates from a Ulster Historical Foundation search.  All the children have St Anne's under the heading "Registration/Baptism" I'm not sure whether they were baptised or this record is a civil registration. I've contacted St Annes to get the cost for a search of the birth dates to see if they are recorded. 

If so ......... and getting back to William & Rose Anne, if John's children were baptised at St Anne's there may be a chance William & Rose Anne married there.

I'll let you know how I progress

Graeme

Hi Roger

It's taken a while............ but good news.

I confirmed the baptism records for three children of John & Isabella McGowan with St Annes, but they have not located any records for William (John's father) & Rose Anne. 

I have another question I hope you may be able to assist me with or point me in the right direction for research.

John & Isabella were married at Newtownbreda Church in 1835 - the following appeared in The Belfast Newsletter on Feb 10th.

On the 9th inst. at Newtownbreda Church, by the Rev Thos Hincks, Mr. John McGowan, Castle Place, to Isabella, youngest daughter of the late Mr. Hugh Marshall, Belfast. 

I have googled Newtownbreda church and note there is a Presbyterian and Methodist Church in Newtownbreda.  The Methodist church was founded only 60 years ago, whilst the Presbyterian Church was founded in 1840 - which is also after 1835. I'm wondering if the Presbyterian church was operating prior to 1840 ? 

Is there a data base for existing Presbyterian records - like the COI link you sent me on 12 May? (above) 

Regarding Rev. Thos Hincks - according to my google search there was a Rev Thomas Dix Hincks (1767 -1867) and a Rev Thomas Hincks (1818 - 1899) residing in Belfast around 1840. Neither of these persons are mentioned in the online history on the website for Presbyterian Newtownbreda church.

Do you know where I can go to research and establish which church (Presbyterian or other) that one of the Thomas Hincks was associated to that would have been the church where John & Isabella married ?

Graeme 

Hi Graeme!

Sorry for the short delay. I'm going to ask our parish laision for Co. Antrim to comment on your questions. it appears that he is away at present but he will comment when he returns. Thanks!

Roger

Thanks Roger.  Still got 2 months before I'll be in Belfast (from 28 Aug - 3 Sept) - although I leave NZ on 3rd Aug - week in Dublin and 15 day hiking tour of Ireland before I arrive in Belfast. 

Graeme

Graeme,

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so you would certainly expect Isabella Marshall to be connected to the church where she married.  Rev Thos Dix Hincks was ordained as a Presbyterian Minister but, according to the Dictionary of National Biography, in 1835 he was teaching at Belfast Royal Academy, so he probably wasn’t the normal officiating Minister at the church. Perhaps he was a family friend, and was specially asked to conduct the service? This might account for his officiating.

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Hincks,_Thomas_Dix_(DNB00)

His son Thomas would only have been about 17 in 1835 and hadn’t been ordained, so I doubt he was the Minister who officiated.

Newtownbreda Presbyterian only seems to have records from 1845 onwards so that may fit with it being established in 1840 or thereabouts. There is another Presbyterian church nearby at Gilnahirk, with baptisms from 1797 and marriages from 1828. It might be worth looking at those records.

I’d be inclined to check with the Presbyterian Historical Society (PHS) to see if they have any information on whether Newtownbreda congregation existed in 1835. They may also be able to give you some information on the Rev Hincks as they keep career information on all Presbyterian Ministers, in a book known as FASTI.

http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com

PRONI has a copy of most of the surviving Presbyterian church records (with dates), but they are not on-line and a personal visit is required to view them. If you are unable to go there yourself, you may need to employ a researcher.

http://www.proni.gov.uk/guide_to_church_records.pdf

Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

PHS also has a copy but they don’t do look ups. A personal visit is again required to view them.

Don’t expect too much information from a pre 1845 marriage. Usually all the record contains is the couples names, the date of the ceremony and the 2 witnesses names. Sometimes you get a townland (address) or occupation but often not. Rarely are father’s names given and a mother’s name is very rare indeed.

The marriage is most unlikely to have been Methodist, both because the Minister was apparently Presbyterian and also because Methodists had only just started conducting their own marriages in Ireland in 1835 and I only know of one church with a Methodist Minister in the Belfast area then which conducted marriages. (In the 1830s, most Methodists still used the Church of Ireland for their marriages).

Thanks Elwyn

Above info is a huge help. I will contact the PHS and as I will be in Belfast at the end of August I will put both PRONI and PHS on my "to do " list.

I'll let you know how I get on. 

Cheers

Graeme

Graeme,

PHS is only open 2.5 days a week so check the website for the opening hours, if going in person.