Patrick Finnegan 1821 : Short Biography

Comments

Thank you for sharing that fascinating and sad story. Please note, though, that Cladybeg (or Clady Beg in some references) is actually in Kilclooney parish. It is at the far south of it, neighbouring Loughgilly parish. Those Finnegans in early 1800s Cladybeg are thought to have originally come from Loughgilly parish, so that may be the cause of the confusion.

carraige

Monday 10th September 2018 11:41AM

Thank you for that clarification. Looking back at my notes, I see that Patrick's birth was actually recorded in Ballintemple in Balmyre Parish, while some of his siblings were born in Clady Beg. I believe my confusion comes from the baptismal records that I have for the Finnegans, which are in Loughgilly Catholic parish. It would be lovely to find a map that overlays the civil and Catholic parish boundaries for the whole country. I think I started this research before I understood the difference, and the name Loughgilly stuck in my head.

In any case, if you have references to research the family back before Patrick, I would be very interested in following up. 

Ellen

Tuesday 11th September 2018 12:10PM

Is there an easy way to move this story to Kilclooney Parish? Since that's where he lived before he left for England, it seems like a better fit.

Ellen

Saturday 15th September 2018 12:12PM

Thank you so much for sharing. I have been researching the Finnegans as well. This helps me understand perhaps somewhat why my dad attended college in Vermont. Perhaps there remained Finnegan family there. If anyone has other information regarding the Finnegans and perhaps who it was that received the coat of arms and why, we sure would appreciate hearing from you.

potatosalad

Wednesday 11th December 2019 10:10PM

potatosalad: Patrick Finnegan was the oldest of 10 children, 8 of whom lived to adulthood and moved to Vermont with their mother, and settled in Eden, Hyde Park, and Lowell. All but one of Patrick's  siblings were male, and so carried the family name. John (1825-1915) and Terrance (1827-1915) stayed in Vermont, and each had many children as well. I believe there are still descendants of the Finnegans living in Vermont.  Where did your father grow up?

Ellen

Wednesday 11th December 2019 10:43PM

Ellen: My father grew up in Worcester, Massachusetts.

potatosalad

Wednesday 11th December 2019 11:51PM

Ah, I wonder if he was a descendant of Dennis Finnegan (1834-1919), one of Patrick's younger brothers, who moved to Worcester. He was married there, so I suspect his wife, Catherine Butler, probably settled there with her family when they arrived from Ireland. Their children were Maggie, Mary, Joseph, Catherine, and Michael. My great-great grandmother Kate Finnegan lived with her uncle Dennis in Worcester in 1870. She was 12, while Maggie and Margaret were toddlers, and I suspect they took her in in exchange for some help with child care. 

Ellen

Thursday 12th December 2019 01:16AM

Hmm, is it possible that Patrick had a brother James? James came from Ireland 1838 and married Mary C. O'Brien (who also came from Ireland ~1838) in Worcester 1863.

potatosalad

Thursday 12th December 2019 02:49AM

I found a marriage record for James Finnegan and Mary O'Brien in Worcester, which gives his father's name as Jeremiah, so if this is your ancestor he's not Patrick's brother. There was a brother named James, but he went to Minnesota. It's possible that they're related, but not brothers. Do you know if they came from Armagh? 

Ellen

Friday 13th December 2019 02:13PM

Thank you. Jeremiah is one of our ancestors. The only records we have show County Kerry. As we are new to Ireland Reaching Out, is there a way that we can communicate more privately?

potatosalad

Friday 13th December 2019 08:26PM

You can email me at emshortell@gmail.com

 

Ellen

Friday 13th December 2019 10:01PM

Thank you for this information, I could never completely piece together the history of the Finnegans of Hyde Park and Eden.  I'm also part Finnegan and I'm almost certain it's the same family but my connection is through a more distant relative, a cousin to some degree or another of Patrick's and his siblings'.
Mary Ann Finnegan 1827-1896 married James Savage in 1849 and they had 13 children, nine of whom lived to adulthood and six of whom ended up in either Hyde Park and/or Morrisville, Vt. Mary Ann was baptized in Loughgilly parish but lived in Tullyvallen, Newtownhamilton, Armagh, but, just to confuse things, she died in Castleblayney which was the Poor Law Union name for the area.  
My grandmother grew up in Vermont knowing Dennis, Mary, and James Finnegan who were three of Terrance's children.

BMarie

Thursday 2nd July 2020 01:14AM

Is this Mary Finnegan, daughter of Pat Finnegan and Biddy Vallely, baptized 29 July 1827, sponsors Henry Bradley and Biddy Vallely? Patrick and Peter were often interchanged for the  same person, but the Patrick Finnegan I've written about here, my 3g-grandfather, had a brother James baptized in the  same parish in January 1827, with his parents' names given as Peter Finnegan and Margaret Vallely; given the close dates and the fact that both entries are written in the same hand these are probably two different couples. It's possible that Patrick's father, Peter, had a brother named Patrick, except that on his marriage record Patrick gives his father's name as Patrick. So more likely they were cousins, which  would make Mary Ann at least second cousin to Patrick. Do you know anything of Biddy Vallely? She might be Margaret's sister, which could make your Mary Ann a first AND second cousin. 

The first names are frequently repeated in different lines of the family going forward from here, and this likely reflects the names of parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles. Patrick's first daughter was named Mary Ann. A pretty common name but it could well mean something. 

I note that by the time of Griffith's valuation, when all my Finnegans had left, there were no Finnegans in Cladybeg, but quite a few Vallelys, so I assume that Patrick's father Peter moved to Cladybeg to his wife's family's home, and that, as stories about my Patrick suggest, he originally came from Ballintemple in Balmyre parish, where  there were still several Finnegan families.

Have you done a dna test? With all the Finnegan descendants in the US, this can be  really helpful. If you have a dna test or a tree and would like to collaborate, let me know. 

 

Ellen

Thursday 2nd July 2020 02:56PM

I'm not entirely sure, but the pairing of Biddy and Patrick is my best guess. 

Unfortunately, I know nothing about Bridget Vallely.  However, I know there were several Vallely relatives in Morrisville, Hyde Park, and Graniteville, Vermont: Michael Vallely and his wife Mary Ann Kennit stayed in England for a time before moving on to Vermont. Michael had several siblings and two of his sisters - Catherine Vallely Miner and Margaret Vallely Rocks (Rox)- settled in Vermont, too. Their parents were Margaret Corr/Kerr and Edward Vallely and all three were born in Cladybeg, Ballymacnab, Armagh.

If you look at an obituary for a Vallely or Finnegan in Vermont in the late 1800s and early 1900s you will find the names Tyndall, Stewart, Savage, Garland, McElroy, Coates, Corry, Dower, with a liberal mix of other names in the mourners' section. Most were related by blood or marriage, I just don't know where they all link together.  In obituaries one also sees the Finnegan place of origin written as Billy-wire, Armagh, Ireland.  I guess that's Balmyre? The newspaper always tried its best.

I have a tree and DNA test results on Ancestry.

Collaboration sounds good! I don't know a lot about Armagh, but I know a lot about Vermont.

BMarie

Saturday 4th July 2020 05:37AM

I  recently found a family note (posted on another Vallely relative's Ancestry tree) saying that Margaret Vallely Rocks lived with her aunt when she first emigrated to Vermont. Her obituary says she  lived in Hyde Park when she first arrived. The censuses for 1850 and 1860 show Margaret Finnegan Vallely in Underhill and then Eden. This suggested  to me that Margaret Finnegan was her aunt, which would make my Margaret a sister to Edward . 

I am eshortell on Ancestry. I have dna there for myself and for my mother. 

Ellen

Ellen

Saturday 4th July 2020 01:02PM

To answer a query above, Ballymoyer, Ballymyre and Ballywyre or Billy-wire do all refer to the same location. The name comes from eight townlands that were in the possession of the Mac an Mhaoir, or MacMoyer clan, since "time out of mind" prior to 1600, hence the area's original Gaelic name Baile an Mhaoir. The last part is from maor, meaning a steward or official. The clan had an hereditary position with the church in Armagh and were custodians of the Book Of Armagh (now in Trinity College Dublin, alongside similarly illuminated manuscripts, most famously the Book Of Kells).
In anglicising the name, the last part has varied from 'wire' to 'mire'/'moyer' sound as a result of the 'h' addition due to Irish grammar. This changes the sound of the 'm' before it to a 'w'. It is still common to hear it referred to locally as something resembling 'Balliwire', especially by older people.
The current Catholic parish that includes Ballymoyer also takes in another ancient church parish at Loughgilly, as well as Tullyherron and the villages of Whitecross and Belleek, so it can be known by any of those names.
Ballintemple - from Baile an Teampaill, townland of the church - is one of the eight townlands of Ballymoyer and, as the name suggests, includes the site of the ancient church at its edge. Tullyvallen townland, and the village of Newtownhamilton within it, bound this area just to the west, while Clady is adjacent to the north, so they are all close to each other. This area also lies at the junction of several Poor Law Unions - Castleblayney, Newry and Armagh - adding to the confusion.
Regarding the Vallelys, there were a lot of them in 18-19th century Cladybeg and Cladymore, so it is difficult to work out which family they might belong to. As there were so many, the families were given nicknames to differentiate between them, as also happened with the Rocks surname in Clady. BMarie - you mention a Catherine Vallely, sibling of Michael, born to Edward and Margaret Corr. Would 1842 be Catherine's birth year by any chance?

carraige

Friday 10th July 2020 03:41PM

Thank you, carraige. 

Yes, I  believe that BMarie and I were both looking at Catherine Vallely born in 1842. There is a death record for her in Vermont, USA, with an unusual amount of information, including that  she was born on 12 June 1842 in Ballymacnab, Armagh, Ireland. Her parents' names are listed here as Edward Vallely and Mary Kier or Keir, both born in Ballymacnab. I believe the parish records for baptisms begin in 1844. Did you come across something? 

Ellen

Ellen

Monday 13th July 2020 06:45PM

Thank you, carraige. 

Yes, I  believe that BMarie and I were both looking at Catherine Vallely born in 1842. There is a death record for her in Vermont, USA, with an unusual amount of information, including that  she was born on 12 June 1842 in Ballymacnab, Armagh, Ireland. Her parents' names are listed here as Edward Vallely and Mary Kier or Keir, both born in Ballymacnab. I believe the parish records for baptisms begin in 1844. Did you come across something? 

Ellen

Ellen

Monday 13th July 2020 06:52PM

Ellen, the parish records actually go back further to 1820. For some reason when parish baptismal records were originally scanned (back in the 1950-60s, I believe), they failed to do this with the earliest book in the Kilclooney (Ballymacnab) parish that covers 1820-1844 baptisms. Those scans were used to create the National Library’s (NLI) Catholic Parish Register website. With permission from the parish, contact was made a few years ago with NLI to see if they would be able to add images from the older book, but, unfortunately, they do not have the resources for adding to their system at this time. Some of the earlier images are very difficult to read in their present state anyway and would require work done on them.

It appears that the 1844-1880 dataset is used by most genealogy websites. However, at some stage the complete records, including the earlier ones, were digitised for an Armagh Diocesan records database. This database is available to consult through the Cardinal Ó Fiaich Library and also from other local genealogy resources in a digital format. The paper records lie at the parish office in Ballymacnab, but they have no search facility.

I happened to be doing some research on Clady families and can verify that date for Catherine Vallely’s baptism (or birth – you can never be too sure) is what appears in the parish records. A sister Susan is recorded as well in April 1848 with their mother’s name either Corr or Carr. However, your suggestion of Keir is not surprising. The names - usually as Corr, Carr and Kerr - get mixed up at times as they can have the same origin in their original Irish form. Those doing the recording were not always too bothered with accuracy anyway. If your information is from family knowledge, it would fit with them being part of a larger family than just Catherine and Susan.

Going by tenancy, census and civil records, I’d hazard a guess they might be from a house that once stood here. Does the name Harley mean anything to you? There were so many different Vallely families that nicknames were given to differentiate, some of which remain in limited use to this day.

carraige

Tuesday 14th July 2020 02:41PM

Thanks for that information. 

I have not come across a reference to the name Harley, but maybe BMarie has. I have only found these relatives recently, as my 3G-grandmother, Margaret Vallely, is a generation older; she  appears to be Catherine Vallely Rock's Aunt.

Yes, I've seen all these variants  of spelling -- Corr, Carr, Kerr.  The Keir or Kier was handwritten by a clerk in Vermont, and it is again probably a guess based on the way someone pronounced  the name. 

Ellen

Tuesday 14th July 2020 05:11PM

Hello, carraige.

Thank you for the explanation of Billy-wire.  To me the word always read like a valiant attempt at a foreign language that was a little off the mark.

Yes, that was the Catherine Vallely I was researching.  She had several siblings including twin brothers born in 1853.  I know of at least four of her siblings who remained in Ireland. Michael, Catherine, and Margaret emigrated to Vermont. Michael was slightly famous for a short time because he made money going through bankruptcy proceedings. This was reported in papers all over Vermont because it was an unusual result of bankruptcy in 1903 to earn $108.27, the modern equivalent of approximately $3000.

I have never seen the name Harley associated with the Vallelys, neither in Ireland nor in Vermont.

BMarie

Sunday 19th July 2020 07:04AM

Yes, that tallies with it being that particular household, BMarie. One of the twins you speak of was called Terence and was known locally as 'Tarry Harley', but based on tenenacy records that Harley nickname for the family goes back at least to that Terence's grandfather (probably also Terence).

An unusual bankruptcy indeed!

carraige

Sunday 19th July 2020 08:48PM

Hi, my father was Francis Edward Finnegan and he was born in Graniteville, Vermont. I know very little about this side of my family. My paternal grandfather died before I was born and he had a brother named John and my paternal grandmother's first name was Genevieve, who I met only once as a teenager. Anyone know if this is the same family or how I would go about looking for paternal kin?

Robert Finnegan

Wednesday 12th July 2023 10:09PM

Hello MulaiBulak,

A good place to start looking is Familysearch.org. It's free, and gives you access to thousands of records. 

I have a tree on ancestry with lots of Finnigans, so I took a quick look to see if I could connect your father to my family. I wasn't able to so far. His father was also named Francis Edward Finnegan, born  in  Mineville, NY, which is just across the border from Vermont. His mother's maiden name was Genevieve Julia Sullivan, born in Graniteville, VT. Francis E. Finnigan Sr's parents were Miles Finnigan, born somewhere in Ireland -- nothing more specific --  around 1830.  His mother  was Sarah Devens, born in New York. 

There are quite a few Patricks, Francises, and Johns in my Finnigan tree, but I haven't come across anyone named Miles, so I'm at a dead end for  the moment. 

Good luck.

Ellen

Ellen

Thursday 13th July 2023 02:48AM

Thank you Ellen for that information. I do think my Finnegan forefathers were in New York before Vermont. My grandfather was a foreman at the granite quarry in Graniteville.

Robert Finnegan

Thursday 13th July 2023 03:05AM

MulaiBulak: I made an error. Francis Sr's father was John Edward Finnigan, born in Port Henry, NY, 5 July 1863, died in Vermont in 1926. He was also a quarryman. I found an obituary for him. His wife was Mary Cominsky from Moriah, New York. Miles Finnigan was his father, and he appears to have lived in Rutland, VT, when he first arrived in the US in 1846 until he married Sarah Devens. Also worked in granite quarries. There is a naturalization declaration dated 1855 in Rutland that says he came from Sligo. If that is right he is probably not closely related to my Finnigans from Armagh. There is another Ancestry member who has done more research. 

Ellen

Thursday 13th July 2023 10:28AM