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Quick question: we found a reference to fields in "Metrican" that yielded black oats over 7 feet tall.
A quick google search left us no results for where Metrican would be. Presumably, it should be near Garvagh, Errigal, Derry. Are you able to help with a location?
I had uploaded all my Hutchinson family last night, and thought this might help determine where William Hutchinson might have been, as these fields where owned by Knox Hutchinson in 1880.

Jules Osborn

Wednesday 6th May 2020, 10:22PM

Message Board Replies

  • Jules,

    The townland where Knox Hutchinson lived is probably Mettican (sometimes known as Mettican Glebe). I see 2 Hutchinson farms there in Griffiths Valuation c1860,, one owned by a William and the other by Hugh. Those farms today are on the modern Mettican Rd, which is a couple of miles north from Garvagh. One Hutchinson still there in 1901 (who appears to be William’s widow):

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Garvagh/Mettican_Glebe/1519886/

    There was a Knox Hutchinson who ran a pub in Garvagh when he got married. His father was William, a farmer. Knox married Margaret Forgrave in 1879:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11079/8054415.pdf

    This looks to be Knox and family in the 1901 census, by then working in Belfast. He died in Belfast in 1912.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Duncairn_Ward/Lilliput_Street/958687/

    Hutchinson is a fairly common name in Co. Londonderry. There are about 350 in the 1901 census of the county.

    Knox Hutchinson was Presbyterian though what looks to be his mother was Church of Ireland so if searching church records, I would check both denominations.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 06:12AM
  • Thank you, yes, that is my Knox Hutchinson that ran the pub in Garvagh and died in Belfast in 1912.
    On the 1859 Griffith's Valuation, I see Sarah in her own house with small garden, toward the bottom of the page. She would have been 14 when Knox was born in 1847 and 26 at this Griffith's listing, according to her age in the 1901 census. Would it be common for her to have her own property listing if she were Knox's mother?

    Jules Osborn

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 02:00PM
  • Jules,

    I think the Sarah in Griffiths in 1859 is a different Sarah to the lady in the 1901 census. Women mostly only appear in Griffiths if they were widows. The Valuation revision records (on the PRONI site) show the Sarah in plot 17b (a house & small garden) being replaced by William Hutchinson in 1880. He in turn was replaced by Sarah. So I’d guess that the first Sarah was a relative of his (his own widowed mother perhaps) and that after her death he moved into her cottage with his wife Sarah, whose name then later appears after his death.

    There’s a Sarah Hutchinson death regd in Coleraine in 1874, aged 75. You might want to look at that to see if it’s the Mettican lady.

    All ages in censuses, marriage or death documentation in Ireland need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Errors of up to 10 years are very common.  Many were just guesses. In general, people in Ireland in the 1800s didn’t celebrate birthdays, didn’t have birth certificates or passports (though they might sometimes have had a baptismal cert) and often had little accurate idea of their ages. Most ages on official documents were just a guess. Either the Sarah in the 1901 census was older than the census indicates or alternatively her son Knox was younger.

    Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner revisited” perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages:

    “My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25th December or 12th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 02:19PM
  • Thank you for that research!
    I am wondering if Sarah was Sarah neé McAneary Hutchinson, then?
    Knox's 7th living child was named Isabella Alexandra McNeary Hutchinson. There is the shared plot 13, that William has with 6 others, including Randal & John McAneary...

    Would that make sense?

    Jules Osborn

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 02:37PM
  • Jules,

    I looked for possible marriages for the Mettican Hutchinsons. I found one for William H to Catherine Hagan on 17.5.1853.  William’s father was Hugh Hutchinson.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1853/09447/5422677.pdf

    Catherine looks to have died on 12.5.1895, aged 63, widow of a farmer. Her sister Jane Hagan was the informant.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Slaght/Farrentemple_Glebe/1520433/

    There was an unmarried William H who lived in Mettican and who died 13.7.1886 aged 70, from drowning. So we know now there were at least 2 Williams in the townland. One married and one single.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1886/06243/4787570.pdf

    So I am not sure who the widowed Sarah H was in the 1901 census. I can’t see who her husband was. But you might get some more information from the 1874 death. (It’s not on-line free. You need to pay GRONI to view it). Likewise there was a William H death in 1872 aged 60, and Hugh H 1871 aged 75.  You might want to look at those. 

    For births pre 1864 and marriages pre 1845 you will need church records. They are not on-line. A visit to PRONI will be required. Errigal Church of Ireland has no records before 1873 (the earlier records were lost in the 1922 fire in Dublin). 1st Garvagh Presbyterian has records from 1795 & 2nd Garvagh from 1830.  3rd Garvagh has baptisms from 1872 and marriages from 1864. (I suspect it was only established in the 1860s).

    The naming that you have mentioned does suggest  there was a marriage into the McNeary family. And that wouldn’t be unusual in farming circles, and it wa scommon for Presbyterians to use some relative's maiden name as a middle name. I looked for marriages involving McNeary of Mettican but didn’t find any in the statutory records.

    Have you checked the local graveyards for gravestones? There might be some clues there.

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 07:00PM
  • A little more information for you. The Coleraine Chronicle of 3.8.1878 has a notice from Isabella Hutchinson advertising the sale of a farm (11 acres 2 roods) in Mettican.

    I searched that name and found a death in Garvagh on 1st Dec 1881 for Isabella Hutchinson, farmer’s widow, aged 72. The informant was her son Knox Hutchinson.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06424/4845714.pdf

    Coleraine Chronicle for 17.7.1886 has an article detailing the inquest on William Hutchinson of Mettican who drowned there. The inquest heard that he was an epileptic and the doctor’s opinion was that he had had a fit and fallen into water in a ditch on the bog where he was cutting turf, and drowned. A witness was his sister Sarah who had found his body when he failed to come home for his lunch. 

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 7th May 2020, 08:26PM
  • Oh my gosh!!! Thank you so much for finding Isabella!! That is amazing!

    To touch on some of the other information: I did send the inquiry to GRONI for the death record for Sarah, but I am unsure if they are working (COVID19) as I have not recieved an email back.

    A PRONI visit and a graveyard visit are on the list, but we had to cancel our planned trip to Ireland this month due to COVID19. We are hoping to reschedule when it is safe to travel from the US.

    Interesting that the William H who was single was an epileptic. Knox's oldest daughter Maggie (short for Margaret, named after her mom) was also epileptic. As a family trait, he could be related still in some fashion.

    When I looked at Isabella's death record, I also see "Alexander McNeary" is the registrar of births and deaths. Interesting that the name appears again. Isabella Alexandra McNeary Hutchinson was born 6 Feb 1894.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-sear…

    Thank you again, so much!! I Really appreciate your help!

    Jules Osborn

    Friday 8th May 2020, 03:12PM
  • Jules,

    There’s no need to e-mail GRONI to see their certificates. You can view them all on-line. Just buy some credits and view the certificate, straight away. (I don’t think they are working so you probably won’t get a reply from them. Not for a while anyway).

    The section you need is search for deaths. You don’t need to order a copy of the certificate.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Friday 8th May 2020, 04:20PM
  • The William Hutchinson who died 22 Feb 1872 was from Movenis Desert. He was about 60 yrs old and a Carpenter. A Susan Hutchinson from Movenis was present at death. So that is not my William based on occupation. Based on this research, including that Isabella was a widow, my William would have had to die after Griffith's 1859 valuation and prior to 1865 when records are available.

    The Sarah Hutchinson who died 3 April 1874 was in Garvagh, Errigal. She was aged 75 and a Farmer's Widow. A Catherine Gould (Goold) was present at death. I can not determine any relationship to my Hutchinson's by the witness name listed.

    The Hugh Hutchinson who died Dec 16, 1871 was from Mettican Desert. He was a farmer, 75 yrs old. Catherine Lagan was present at death. He is likely the Hugh listed in the 1859 Griffith's in Mettican, but I can not determine any relation to my Hutchinson's based on the witness listed.

    I also looked at 4 other Hutchinson's who died between 1865 and 1880 who died in the Garvagh District. The only one I can identify is Knox's sister, Elizabeth who died 2 Feb 1876 at age 28. She lived in Mettican, was a spinster, farmer's daughter, and Knox Hutchinson was present at death. She died of heart disease.

    The others I can not connect based on the witness/occupation are:
    Andrew, a pauper age 77 d. In 1875 in Caheney, Aghadowey with Susan Kellagher as witness.

    Martha, d 12 Jan 1871, age 94 in Garvagh. The widow of a Laborer with a Margaret Hutchinson present at death. (My Margaret was not married to Knox yet and would be Margaret Forgrave for 8 more years.)

    Mary, died 12 April 1870, age 72. Married to a Laborer in Caheny, Aghadowey. Andrew Hutchinson present at death. She died of paralysis.

    Jules Osborn

    Saturday 9th May 2020, 03:08AM
  •   

    Jules,

    I suspect the Catherine Lagan who was the informant for Hugh Hutchinson’s death was this lady here who lived in Garvagh:

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1891/06065/4729397.pdf

    She was a single lady and might have just been a friend of the family. Or she might have been related. Hard to know.

    Going back a bit to the tithe applotment records for 1825 there were 2 farms in Mettican that had the name Hutchinson (or similar). Both headed by a William. William Hutchen and William Hutchinson.

    http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/errigal-parish.php

    Where you get people of the same or similar name living beside each other then they can often be related, but in this case the connection is probably back in the 1700s and there are really no records to consult that would help with that. (William & Hugh’s farms in Mettican face each other, either side of Mettican Rd. I’d expect there to have been a family connection at one time. Indeed it might once have been one farm, and was perhaps split between 2 sons).

    1831 census of Mettican has William Hutchenson with 3 males and 1 female in his house, all Presbyterian.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Errigal/Mittican/8/

    Hugh Hutchenson had 4 males and 2 females, again all Presbyterian.

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Coleraine/Errigal/Mittican/12/

    Hutchinson is a common name in that part of Ireland.  Thousands of Scots settled in that area in the 1600s and they weren’t all related. So the families in Caheny and elsewhere may be unconnected.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Sunday 10th May 2020, 05:18PM
  • Thank you so much!!
    It makes a lot of sense that Hugh and William are likely brothers with having farms across the street from each other. And I really appreciate you digging into the 1831 census records. I didn't even know those existed! It is helpful in knowing how many siblings to look for to tie to each family. So, again, I thank you for your efforts! You have been amazingly helpful!

    Jules Osborn

    Monday 11th May 2020, 04:57PM
  • Elwyn,
    Wondering if you have any thoughts on Isabella's farm that went to auction 5 August 1878?
    Presumably, Isabella is already a widow and about 65 years old when she purchased the land from the Church Temporalities Commission in 1875. I know there was a big push for tenant farmers to purchase their properties after 1850, and a renewed push with the Irish Church Act of 1869 to sell the properties held by the Church of Ireland to the farmers.

    Wouldn't it be fairly unusual for a woman to purchase her farm-land?
    I believe the family was fairly well off for Irish standards, based on the style of dress in our family pictures, the fact that many of them are taken by Abernathy Photographers, who held the Royal Warrent as the Queen's official photographer, and that one of her son Knox's 10 children emigrated with a china cabinet in tow.

    Hopefully this link takes you to the article about Isabella's farm.
    https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001283/18780720/07…

    I haven't been able to verify this family story, but it has been passed down that Knox mortaged the family farm to aid a fellow farmer who was in jeopardy of losing his farm. The guy took the money from Knox and fled to America to start a new life. Knox couldn't pay the mortgage back, so the bank reposessed the farm and only let them take what Margaret Forgrave had brought to the marriage. We suspect that would have happened after Knox sold the pub in late 1894 (or what may have prompted him to sell), which ultimately led them to move to Aghadowey where Sarah was born in 1896 then to Belfast for jobs by 1898 where their last son Hugh was born.

    Sarah's birth record:
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/051a…

    Hugh's birth record:
    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/5ad7…
    I find it interesting that Hugh was named Hugh Smith Morrison Hutchinson, I presume after the coroner in the Aghadowey District.

    Article on Knox's sale of the pub is in the second column near the bottom.

    https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001283/18941006/05…

    Jules Osborn

    Tuesday 12th May 2020, 07:06PM
  • Jules,

    Isabella was fortunate that the Church Commissioners were happy to sell the freehold to her. There was much grievance about this in Ireland during the 1700s and 1800s because few landowners would sell. They wanted the rental income, rather than the capital. It was rather galling for farmers to spend 30 years improving a farm to find at lease renewal time that the improved value, generated by their own efforts, had led to a rent increase.  Inability to purchase your freehold was one of the factors that led to many farmers emigrating. It was resolved slowly during the 1800s by various bits of legislation which made piecemeal changes (for example limiting landlords from raising farm rents save in specified circumstances, and granting an almost permanent right to reside provided the rent was paid. Thereby preventing them from being evicted or getting a rent hike.). Finally Wyndham’s Land Act in about 1903 brought in a right to buy scheme with Government funded mortgages. At that point most people who wanted to purchase their freehold could finally do so. 

    Looking at the Valuation Revision records, it appears that most of the tenants in Mettican bought their freehold around the same time that Isabella did ie 1876.  So that fits with the Church encouraging them all to buy. (The year is marked in red in the right hand column. The term “in fee” is used to indicate that the occupant owned the freehold). The changes of tenant/occupant on Isabella’s farm are interesting. William’s name appears to have been deleted and replaced by Robert McCaulay in 1873, he was replaced by Thomas Paul in 1876 and then Alex McAnary acquired it in 1879 around the time Isabella sold up.  I think that she must have stopped farming it herself around 1873 and sublet to the others till 1878. The wording of the sale advert seems to indicate the mortgage was only acquired in 1876 when she bought the freehold. Not many farmers would have had £160 sitting about so superficially the mortgage appears to have been to finance the purchase rather than to aid a friend in financial difficulties.

    It looks as though Isabella had decided to retire. After she sold the farm I think she went to live with Knox in Garvagh. She died there 3 years later, and the cause of death was “Natural decay. Years.” So I’d say she was already in poor health when she sold the farm.

    It would not be common for a woman to buy a farm. A married woman couldn’t buy land until the Married Womans’s Property Act in 1870. All her assets were deemed her husband’s and so he would have made any purchase.  So it would only be a single woman or a widow who could have purchased a farm. How many single female farmers were there in Ireland? I interrogated the 1901 Irish census, searching under “female” and “farmer” & “Widow/single”. To my slight surprise there were 141,908 single or widowed women who were farmers. (Total population then was 4.4 million).  I haven’t come across many women buying their freehold but I haven’t specially looked for it either.  It sounds as though her sale was timed along with all the others and must have been part of a bulk deal, which may have encouraged her to buy.

    In terms of the family’s wealth, all I can say is that it wasn’t the biggest farm. The total land on plot 11 was 9 acres and 5 perches. Plus William had a one seventh share of plot 13, which was just over 5 and a quarter acres. 9 acres or so was not a big farm.  You could make a living from that but I wouldn’t have expected there to have been huge profits.

    There does appear to have been a major downward change in Knox’s financial circumstances over the years.  He could presumably have inherited William & Isabella’s farm if he had wanted but decided instead to run a pub. Presumably Isabella had some capital after the farm was sold, and you would expect him to have inherited that when she died. So on the face of it he was comfortably off.  However he has to sell the pub and take work as a labourer. That does suggest some sort of financial problem. So perhaps there is some truth in the story of him lending money to a friend who absconded.

    There’s no suggestion in the farm sale notice that there were any arrears on the mortgage nor that Isabella was being forced to sell by the bank. Her affairs look to have been in order. Knox’s difficulties appear to have arisen 16 years later when he sold the pub. So perhaps he took out a loan against the pub, to help someone who then defaulted?

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 14th May 2020, 05:33AM
  • There's such a fascinating history in Ireland! I appreciate your perspective and ability to manipulate your resources to help me piece together their story!

    I had found an article about Knox's farm in Mettican in Sept 1880 and his 7 ft tall black oats. Since we now know that Isabella sold her farm in 1878, I would guess that this mentioned farm is the shared 5 acre farm William had with the six others. I didn't find Knox's name in the Valuation Revisions as to having his own property. William's share of plot 13 is replaced by Thomas Paul, but two other portions are replaced by Knox's wife's brother, Thomas Forgrave, in the 1881-1889 Revision.

    Link to the article about Knox's farm. The story appears near the bottom of the second column.
    https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/viewer/bl/0001283/18800911/05…

    Jules Osborn

    Thursday 14th May 2020, 06:27PM
  • Interestingly, I have determined that Thomas Paul is related by marriage to Thomas Forgrave. William Forgrave and Susanna Martin have two sons: Thomas Forgrave and David Forgrave. David married Elizabeth Paul. Elizabeth has a brother Thomas Paul who marries Sarah neé Brookes Paul. Sarah Paul is the beneficiary of Thomas' brother, Robert Forgrave's Estate (he was single) upon his death. Thomas Paul sublet Isabella's farm before she sold it, and bought William Hutchinson's 1/7 share of the 5 acre plot. Intersting little farming circle!

    Jules Osborn

    Saturday 16th May 2020, 05:29AM
  • Jules,

    Farmers often married locally. The nature of farming meant you were needed on the farm a lot of the time and you couldn’t easily court someone who lived 40 miles away, when for most people the normal method of travel was on foot.  So they often married the girl next door.  Literally in many cases. That also meant they could keep land in the family more easily. They did not like to see land going out of the family. (Indeed they still don’t). Neighbours would help each other, and work together on each other’s farms, and you often see two brothers marrying 2 sisters. It was all quite convenient and mutually helpful. A local farmer once said to me that his grandfather had said that when he was young  "You usually married someone who lived within an asses bark." An ass barking can probably be heard half a mile or so.

    The bicycle arrived in rural Ireland in about the 1860s and that made a bit of a change to courting. You could cast your net a bit wider after that. There’s a potentially fascinating thesis waiting to be written on the influence of the bicycle on courtship in Ireland from the 1860s onwards.

    Anecdotally I have heard that the number of village idiots declined after the 1860s, and some say this was due to the gene pool widening a bit as people stopped marrying their cousins in such great numbers.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Saturday 16th May 2020, 05:55PM
  • Elwyn,
    Wondering if you can add anything to my research into Isabella's last name? I think she was Isabella Moore.

    Looking at the tithe applotment records for 1825. There is only William Hutchenson listed, but not his "guessed brother", Hugh. So I am thinking that this William Hutchenson is actually a Senior and that his sons are Hugh and William Jr that appear in the 1831 Census.
    In that census, Hugh has 4 males and 2 females and William Jr. has 3 males and 1 female. We know that William is Knox and Elizabeth's father but they are not born until 1847-1849, so that is not them in the census records.

    William was a 1/7 owner of a five acre plot with Robert, John, and Cochrane Moore; Randal and John McAneary; and John Darragh in 1859. Based on how land was equally divided amongst the children, when the father died, it would lend me to believe that Isabella's father had seven children.
    Otherwise, it makes no sense to split 5 acres equally.

    Looking at the 1831 Census, John Moore, Sr had three children at home, a male and two females, besides himself and his wife. He likely had two sons, John Moore Jr. and Daniel Moore with their own properties, Isabella would have been with William. Two sisters would have married McAneary's (Randal and John who are not in the 1831 census) and one sister would have married John Darragh (who had 2 males and 2 females in the 1931 census). The one male child at home would have to be Robert or Cochrane. Daniel's share would have to have been inherited by an oldest son of Daniel Moore to be Robert or Cochrane.

    I think that the McAnery's are Isabella's brother-in-laws and that is why the name keeps appearing in later records for Knox and Margaret's children. Alexander McAneary was the recorder of births and deaths, but also purchased Isabella's farm in 1879 and appears as the middle name of Knox's daughter Isabella Alexandra McNeary Hutchinson. It appears they had a close bond, but you said you did not find any Hutchinson/McAneary marriages.

    The Darragh's have the one entry in the 1831 census for John Darragh with 2 males and 2 females in the household. There is an entry for a Daniel Darragh, but he is not one of the part owners listed. He has 4 males and 3 female children listed, but then the part share owners should have more Darragh's than just one.

    Based on the knowledge that women could not own their own property until after 1870, I believe Moore is the only last name that could be Isabella's. And that her father passed away between the 1831 census and the 1859 Griffith's.

    Is there any way to confirm this?

    Link to the 1831 Census:
    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=18…

    Jules Osborn

    Wednesday 17th Jun 2020, 03:18AM
  • Jules,

    Your best bet is to go through Garvagh 1st & 2nd Presbyterian churches records in PRONI (or get a researcher to do it for you, if you aren’t coming to Ireland for a year or so). The families you are interested in all appear to have been Presbyterian so that’s very likely where they married and attended church. You may hopefully find William and Isabella’s marriage and/or the baptisms of their children, from which you should get Isabella’s maiden name.

    PRONI remains closed at present due to Covid, but some museums are re-opening next month, so I expect PRONI will likely re-open by August anyway. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

    Here's details of the Garvagh 1st records. Note that there were 2 censuses in 1796 & 1840 which may help you too:

    Baptisms, 1795-1816, 1822-49 and 1859-1945;
    marriages, 1795-1802, 1807-14 and 1822-89;
    census of congregation, 1796 and 1840.

    Garvagh 2nds:

    Baptisms, 1830-1921; marriages, 1830-1934; burials, 1853-96;
    session and committee minutes, 1827-76;
    communicants’ roll, 1832-6, 1854-5 and 1887-1918.

    Burial records are fairly unusual for a Presbyterian church. They don't usually bother keeping them so that's a bonus for you if any family used that church.

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Thursday 18th Jun 2020, 04:07AM
  • Thank you so much! I appreciate your help!

    Jules Osborn

    Thursday 18th Jun 2020, 05:46AM
  • I haven't had time to read through this topic thoroughly yet but do have quite a bit of information on the McNearys, Forgraves, Hutchinsons and other local families.

    Dr. Alexander McNeary (1826-1904) married (1855 Moneydig Presbyterian Church) Mary Anne Moore of Garvagh (parents Robert Moore & Jane Dorrance). His parents were Thomas & Annie/Anna McNeary of Gorran and not related (or not at all closely related) to Mettican family.

    Randall/Reynold McNeary of Mettican had a son John who married relative of my husband's and their grandson married my grandfather's cousin. It's said that everyone is related to eberyone else here!  John/Jack McNeary (brother of Randall?) had several daughter who died unmarried & several married daughters who went to Allegheny, Pennsylvania. Some of Randall's family went to the same place and there was said to be a connection.

    Bridget O'Kane took over the pub in Garvagh after Knox lost it and it was called Jetty's after that. Other descendants of Knox Hutchinson's had a different verson why they left Garvagh.

    I have the records for 2nd (Main St.) Garvagh and also 3rd Garvagh (not online) as well as quite a bit of 1st Garvagh. Have graveyard maps for 1st & 2nd (3rd didn't have burying ground). Will have a look through my files tomorrow and also read through here again.

     

    Aghadowey

    Saturday 27th Jun 2020, 10:33PM
  • Aghadowey,

    I would certainly love to hear what you have heard about the Pub in Garvagh. I have found reference to Ecklin O'Kane purchasing the pub from Knox in 1894. It seems that the O'Kane's were a very colorful family. Patrick O'Kane seems to be Ecklin's father and a drunkard. Patrick seemed to have lost a pub in 1886, potentially due to his drinking problem. I had not seen reference to Bridgit, but had heard a woman was running it when Knox's grandchildren visited in the 1950's or 60's.

    Also interesting you mention Pennsylvania. When Knox and Margaret's son William immigrated to the US in 1903, he listed "cousins" Paul Herd and Robert Herd at 1976 (or 1936) North St. Philadelphia, PA as his final destination.
    I have not been able to identify who these relatives might be. Maybe you might know?

    Any help you can give is greatly appreciated!

    Jules Osborn

    Sunday 28th Jun 2020, 09:14PM
  • Aghadowey,
    Just following up to see if you had a chance to look over the information? I would still love to hear what you know about the Pub and why Knox and family left Garvagh.
    You can also reach me via email at jululu30@yahoo.com

    Jules Osborn

    Wednesday 2nd Sep 2020, 06:46PM
  • Elwyn,
    Wanted to drop you a quick note. We have found a confirmed DNA match to a descendent of James Moore 1802-1884, in Garvagh, who's tree aligns with John Moore Sr who we suspected was Isabella's father. I have assigned Isabella's last name as Moore in my tree and linked to James' line as her brother. (Whoo Hoo!!)

    Jules Osborn

    Tuesday 30th Mar 2021, 02:57PM
  •  

    Jules,

    Delighted to hear that. Sounds like good progress.

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Wednesday 31st Mar 2021, 04:56PM
  • Just got notification of a reply on this topic this afternoon but can't see anything here so not sure what is going on.

    Knox Hutchinson was only about 54 when he died in Belfast in 1912 – American descendants told of Knox losing the pub due to heavy drinking.

    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1912/05360/4494144.pdf

    At the time the family left Garvagh there would have been many more employment opportunities for work in Belfast.

    A snippet regarding Knox Hutchinson & the pub in Garvagh-

    Coleraine Chronicle, 5 Dec.1885: Garvagh Petty Sessions. … Breach of the Licensing Act. Constable Rafferty charged Knox Hutchinson, licensed publican, Garvagh, with having his licensed premises open for the sale of drink during prohibited hours…

    And his death in Belfast-

    Belfast Telegraph, 22 July 1912: BELFASTMAN’S APOPLECTIC SEIZURE. A man named Knox Hutchinson, … described as a labourer, residing 196 North Queen Street, Belfast, was conveyed to The Mater Infirmorum Hospital Sunday morning.

    Aghadowey

    Thursday 1st Apr 2021, 08:07PM

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