Mary Whelan

Hi Kim  . . . 

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out . . . to Tipperary County . . and the Town of Roscrea.

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Not sure we can help you . . . because . . . when I searched . . using Roots (paid) 

I found lots of Mary Whelan's . . . being Baptised . . in Roscrea . . in that time area . . . (see below)

Roots found 12 Mary's . . in total . . . 1807 to 1817 . . for Tipperary County . . 4 below for Roscrea . . 

the balance . . mostly . . for the Town of Carrick on Suir . . . . ( which I discounted )

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Next I searched for the Wedding . . .nothing showing on Roots . . . so I switched to Ancestry . . . and found 

(see below) Stradbally 1833. to Doran ( misspelling) . . . this is the only one I found in Tipperary . . .with DORAN as the spouse . . . 

I include a Wedd. for Roscrea 1833 to SHEA spouse . . .  

I actually failed to find the Wedding you refer to as THURLES . . . 

BIRTH . . . 28 Oct.1815 Roscrea  . . . Parents . . . Tim & Catherine . . . would be as you found . . . 

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Again . . . I'm only doing catchups on what you have already found . . . so . . .

I'm afraid I am not much help to you . . . but . . . keep looking . . . 

https://www.discoverireland.ie/Arts-Culture-Heritage/north-tipperary-genealogy-centre/74619

This is a professional search site ( not cheap) . . . 

Cheers . . . Eamonn. 

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Thanks so much Eamonn for providing this information.  Still looking for marriage and death records for Tim and Catherine.  

The marriage information for Mary and Edmund came from Ancestry in the Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915.  https://search.ancestry.com.au/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=61039&h=8725087&tid=14888567&pid=110087889213&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ihs174&_phstart=successSource

Hi again Kim . . . . 

I had a RELOOK at your   " acceptance "    of the Wedding details . . for the Wedding . . Thurles . . .14 feb 1833.

When I look closely at the details . . . I notice that MARY's surname is " PHELAN " . . . not Whelan . . . 

Are these spellings interchangeable  ???? . . . Personally . . . in this case . . I''m NOT sure . . .  I remain to be convinced . . . 

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SO . . . here's another thought . . . . 

In those years . . . pre . Bicycle . . . gettting around . . . was mainly confined to local liasons . . . ( Roscrea - Thurles = 20 miles )

So . . . the Brides birthplace usually dictates . . .the Grooms also . . . 

Not a definite . . . but mainly true . . . 

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SO . . . if Mary was a Roscrea born . . . ( see the Mary's prior)

Roscrea Town     ( in Tipperary Co. ) . . . sits . . geographically . . . ! mile distance from two other Counties surrounding  . . Laoise (a.k.a Queens ) and Offaly (Kings)

I searched for the Groom in the surrounding Counties . . . and found a strong clue . . . one  ... only looked interesting ( see below)

Edward Doran . . . born 1814 . . . in BALLINAKILL . . . ( which is a country district of Roscrea .. within easy walking distance ) .. but in a different County of registration.

his Father is Denis Doran . . . and Mother is Mary - - - - 

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Following the lead to DENIS . . . I searched a TAX roll . . of  1823 - 1837 . . . a.k.a. Tithes Applotment

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp

here I found Denis . . . a Tenant . . . on Lands . . in Ballinkill, Killabbin . . . . 

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625674/004625674_00239.pdf

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp?surname=Doran&firstname=&county=Queen%27s&townland=&parish=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=&pager.offset=40

My guess is . . . if this      EDWARD is your long lost . . . then MARY . . . had to be born in the same DISTRICT . . . 

and both used . . . the nearest ' bigger ' R.C. Church ...i.e. . . Roscrea . . . for the Wedding . . .

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https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0805     . . . . .  

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Again . . . when I look for CATHERINE Doran . . .born circa 1823 - 1843 . . . on/ near Roscrea . . . (see below)

I am reassured that we are POSSIBLY . . . getting closer . . . Courganeen / Bourney Parishes  . . . are within the Roscrea R.C. Church cluster

IS this your Mary . . . I'm not sure . . . BUT . . . there's a strong maybe . . . 

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I fast forward to the 1901 National Census . . . for Doran's . . . then listed for " Tipperary" . . 

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/results.jsp?census_year=1901&surname=Doran&exact=&firstname=&county19011911=Tipperary&county1821=&county1831=&county1841=&county1851=&townland=&ded=&age=&sex=&relationToHead=&religion=&education=&occupation=&marriageStatus=&marriageYears=&childrenBorn=&childrenLiving=&birthplace=&nativeCountry=&language=&deafdumb=&houseNumber=&familiesNumber=&malesNumber=&femalesNumber=&maleServNumber=&femaleServNumber=&estChurchNumber=&romanCatNumber=&presbNumberDiv=&protNumber=&parish=&barony=&yearsMarried=&causeOfDeath=&yearOfDeath=&familyId=&ageInMonths=&search=Search&sort=&pageSize=100

Two . . in particular . . . caught my eye . . . 

DoranWilliam     Ballynough    Bourney EastTipperary26M     DoranMichael     Ballynough     Bourney EastTipperary30M

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Pure speculation . . . . regarding the above . . . but . . . 

Study well . . . and see how all that fits in with your known facts  . . . 

Again . . . Cheers . . . Eamonn.

Hi Eammon,

Thanks for getting back to me.

From what I have found Phelan and Whelan were interchangeable at the time.  Oh, and I accidentally used the name Edward DORAN when it should have been EDMUND (Ned) DORAN. My apologies....

In terms of the marriage of Edmund Doran and Mary Whelan, the record is contained in the Parish Register – Parish - Thurles, Diocese - Cashel and Emly -February 1833

The birth/baptism record for their son Timothy Doran shows the parents as Edmund Doran and Mary Whelan so I am certain that the marriage certificate is the correct one. Tim’s Baptism record is in the Parish Register – Parish - Thurles, Diocese - Cashel and Emly – December 1833.

I found a baptism record for an Edmund Doran – 5 August 1810 in Boherlahan – parents Edmund and Mary Doran. I’m thinking that this may be the correct record for my Edmund Doran.

With regards to Mary’s birth/baptism record, I am basing my logic purely on naming conventions of the time where first born children were often given the first name of their grandparents. Mary’s first born (only) son is named Tim/Timothy (presumably after her father) and her first born daughter was named Catherine (presumably after her mother). This may be totally incorrect but it seems to fit better than the other records.

I found an applotment record for an Edmund Doran for land in Brownstone, but unsure whether it is Mary Whelan’s husband or father-in-law or someone not even related.

The Catherine that I am looking for is Catherine Whelan nee Cahill, I don’t have any Catherine Doran’s in my tree (that I am aware of).

In terms of the 1901 census, I’m thinking that the relationship is unlikely as Edmund died around 1836 - haven't found a death record yet, Mary departed for Australia in 1838 and Tim followed in 1849/50. Mary left Ireland as a Bounty Woman for the colony of New South Wales and I have found some information where she says that she was a widow at the time of departure.

I’ll keep digging…

Kim