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I would appreciate any input regarding this little family - especially Margaret & her Mother Elizabeth. I am not very familiar with Episcopalian records. 

Margaret Parr was born c 1825 in Cavan.  On her immigration documents (Sydney, Australia) on the Sir Charles Napier, dated April 1842 it is stated that she is a 16 yr old Nursemaid, Episcopalian, can read & write.  On this journey she travels under the name Kells with her Mother Elizabeth, Elizabeth's husband Richard Kells and their two children aged 9 & 11. 

Her Mother Elizabeth's immigration documents state that she is 38 (c 1804) and that her parents were Robert and Mary Carr, deceased.  She is a Farm servant, Episcopalian and a native of Kingscourt. 

Kingscourt is not apparently in the Parish of Bailieborough - but it's not far away either. 6/7 miles?

I have found a Baptism for a Margaret Parr in Bailieborough Dec 1825 (born Nov 1825.)  The parents are named  Young Parr and Elizabeth Car. On Margaret's death certificate, her Father is named as John Parr.  I don't know if these names (John/Young) are interchangeable - or if Young might be a nickname like Junior. OR the death cert is wrong - could sound the same in an Irish brogue. 

So if John/Young Parr is Margaret's Father and it wasn't a legitimate birth - would you name the Father on a Church of Ireland Baptism certificate and call the child by his surname?  (I have never seen the original.) I can't find a marriage to Elizabeth Car either but that means nothing probably. 

A first marriage has never been mentioned in any of Elizabeth's documentation down the track (but the info on documents in this branch of my tree is sorely lacking.)  However - if she was married to Young/John Parr, he must have died before 1831 which is when she has her first child with Richard Kells a native of Clones Monaghan (but married in Cavan according to her death certificate.) But I can't find a marriage for Elizabeth and Richard either. 

Any clues appreciated...perhaps I am adding 1 + 1 and getting 3. I do have  Parr DNA connections though. I can supply documents but haven't added them here at this time.

Maree Tully

 

carroll55

Thursday 24th Sep 2020, 03:43AM

Message Board Replies

  • Hi Maree,  

    I will see if can I help you.  I don't know if the name Young was interchangeable with John.  However, I did a quick look for the name Young Parr and I found reference to 4 of them in Rootsireland, (a father and son in one document) so it is a definite name, I wonder is it a case of using a mother's maiden name, it was a tradition among some families then.  The name also turns up in land records such as Griffiths Valuation http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNam… in the Tithe applotments http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625676/00… are after 1831, so the name continued.

    I have found illegitimate births with the father's names listed, though often in the notes it would state the parents were not married and yes I have found children using their father's name even though the parents did not marry, which just means that there are no hard rules in this matter, as you suggest it may be that her mother married twice.  Marriages did and still traditionally take place in the brides parish.  The baptism for Margaret is in the parish of Bailieborough, the townland is given as Leiter and this townland is in Bailieborough, but there is a different one also in Kingscourt.  

    Unfortunately I cannot push your research any further, however if you have found DNA matches, you should pursue them and hopefully they may be able to assist you further.  Best wishes in your research.  Regards Carmel O'Callaghan.

    Bailieborough Cavan

    Thursday 24th Sep 2020, 10:23PM

  • Thankyou so much Carmel - my apologies for not replying sooner - I must have missed this somehow.  

    Just a quick question to clarify something.  

    In the 2nd last paragraph, last sentence you say "but there is a different one also in Kingscourt."  Does that mean there is another Bailieborough - or another Margaret Parr?

    Thanks again & I hope all is well with you & yours over there in these mad times.

    Regards

    Maree Tully

    carroll55

    Friday 5th Mar 2021, 10:59PM

  •  

    Hi Maree,  

    I hope this finds you well.  I would like to clarify my final paragraph, there is a townland of Leiter in Bailieborough and also  in Kingscourt.  

    Regards Carmel

     

     

    Bailieborough Cavan

    Tuesday 23rd Mar 2021, 09:28AM

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