Hello
I am searching for info on my grandma and great grandparents. We believe grandma was born in May 1913, called Frances Armstrong, possibly born to Mary Armstrong and James Armstrong. I have found multiple workhouse admissions for Mary, Frances and George. Frances had an older brother called George who we believe was born in 1908. George’s daughter provided us with the birth certificate he used - however we do not know if it is the correct one / how he came to think / know it was his. It states he was born January 11th 1908 to James and Mary (nee Banks) Armstrong in Shears Street in Cork - I have been unable to find a marriage record for Mary and James in Ireland, Scotland or England. Two workhouse records state that Mary’s husband was James and he was in Baggot Street Hospital, another record states that James is in prison. Frances never had a birth certificate, unsure if her birth was never registered or if she was registered under a different name. The majority of their workhouse admissions are in Dublin, some are in rathdown, the first workhouse record I have found showing Frances is in July 1913 and states she is 7 weeks old. There is an admission from May 3rd to 8th 1913 for Mary and George which states that Mary is pregnant. George was taken into care around the age of 6 and Frances into care around the age of 3, where they stayed until they were young adults. Frances married my English grandad James Bate in Belfast on September 26th 1939, sometime after they moved to Leigh, Greater Manchester England where grandma had three daughters - Doreen born in 1941, Gillian born in 1945 and Barbara (my mum) born in 1949, Frances died on October 21st 1985 in Leigh.
Both mum and I have done ancestry DNA tests but our closest maternal match is only 130cms, we have the makings of a family tree albeit we know nothing about Frances’ family. I have uploaded our results to Gedmatch, My Heritage, FTDNA. I have contacted the GRO, National Archives Ireland, Smyly Trust, no information found by any of them. Grandma was Protestant - not sure if she would have had a baptismal record but havent been sure where to search either - the majority of the workhouse records show them as homeless - so not sure if she would have been baptised officially. I have looked at 1901 and 1911 census, one record for 1911 shows a Mary and George Armstrong in the Tiperrary workhouse, there is also a birth record for a George Armstrong on January 7th 1908 in Cork workhouse to a single mum Mary Armstrong. Ancestry has automatically labeled Frances and George as half siblings, the BC we have for George could be a red herring and they could both have been born to Mary Armstrong with different fathers.
Thankyou for taking the time to read this
Rebecca
Wednesday 28th Aug 2024, 10:44AM
Message Board Replies
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Rebecca,
Just a few thoughts.
According to the records at irishgenealogy.ie, there was Frances Armstrong born in Dublin on 28th of May 1913 with parents William Armstrong and Elizabeth Armstrong née Moore. This is the only record I could find for Frances Armstrong in 1913 (also 1911 to 1915) in the country and it fits with your timeline. See the record here https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur….
There is also a record for George, as you say, in 1908 in Cork, but this is a different family. See the record here:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur….
There is also a record for the birth of George Armstrong in Dublin in November 1910, with mother Elizabeth Armstrong and father not given. See that record here: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…
Best wishes, Kieran
Kieran Jordan, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
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Could I suggest that you include the GedMatch kit number to allow others to find links via DNA. Finding associated families through DNA can give names AND locations too?
The presence in a Workhouse was supposed to be temporary and it also served as a very rudimentary hospital so not everyone that attended was recorded. Of course records do exist and were supposed to but places where often overwhelmed and without stringent external checks, so, records were not reliably kept. In addition many people would be outside the four walls (like an outpatients system?) and no obligation to spend time writing things down.
Seamus Crowe, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘