Query about the King family associated with Turin, Ballinrobe, County Mayo

Michael:

Just to clarify for others, the 1850 marriage was between Patrick King and Honor Burke and Patrick was listed as from Renmore.

I assume Patrick and Honor left for America after the marriage.

Turin is in the civil parish of Kilmainmore which is southeast of Ballinrobe. There were no Kings listed in the Griffiths Valuation (1855) for Turin and the 1901 census did not have any Kings either. So your DNA match needs to provide some data showing the King connection to Turin.

Roger McDonnell

In the Tithe Applotment Books for Mayo, there were 50 heads of household named King:

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/results.jsp…

Two of these --Thomas King and Darby [Jeremiah] King--were in Ballinrobe.

In the 1856-57 Griffith’s Valuation of Mayo, there were three King heads of household in Ballinrobe, as follows.

King     Bridget              Cornaroya     Ballinrobe       Co. Mayo

King     John    Cornaroya       Ballinrobe       Co. Mayo

King     Michael           Curraboy (Knox )        Ballinrobe       Co. Mayo

(From rootsireland.ie.)

Turin is about 6 or 7 miles from Cornaroya townland.  Curraboy (Knox) townland is adjacent to Cornaroya.

You can see the Griffith's info in detail askaboutireland.ie.

Hello Michael,

In his reply of 6 October 2024 Ireland Reaching Out Volunteer Roger McDonnell wisely suggested providing, “some data showing the King connection to Turin.”

Taking Roger’s suggestion, I did just that and found two records showing a King family living very close to Turin, though not in Turin itself, as you’ll shortly see.

I found the civil birth record for a Michael King at the free irishgennealogy.ie website, showing that he was born on 6 February 1878 in Hundred Acres, County Mayo. His father is John King, employed as a “Plowman” in Hundred Acres. Michael’s mother is Ellen McManus, of Hundred Acres. You can access the birth record after following the prompts at:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

The Google Map at the following link shows that “Hundredacres,” by the shortest modern-day route, is 2 miles southwest of Turin: https://tinyurl.com/mv2vyu99

Based on the information from Michael’s birth record I looked for a copy of his original baptism record at the free National Library of Ireland website, and found it. But the baptism record differs with his birth record about the date of his baptisms and where he was baptized.

The baptism record shows that Michael, son of John King and Ellen McManus, was baptized on 18 November 1877. At the time of the baptism he and his family were living in what appears to be the townland of “Cartoon.” More on this later.

Michael’s godparents are John and Bridget McManus, who would have been related to Michael’s mother.

The baptism record can be accessed at: 

https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMICROFILM04216-05%2…

You’ll see two facing pages of the Kilmaine Parish register. Michael’s baptism is on the right-hand page. You can enlarge the image for better viewing. 

Scroll down to the month of November. Michael’s baptism is the fifth entry under the November subheading. In the right margin of the baptism you’ll see the numbers, 2 and 6. This tells you that his parents, John and Ellen McManus King, made a donation of 2 Shillings and 6 Pence to the Catholic Church for performing the baptism.

Just to the left of Michael’s name is what appears to be a marriage notation recorded by the priest. I believe however this refers to the marriage of the parents recorded in the baptism record just before Michael’s baptism on 16 November.

Michael’s baptism was recorded before his birth. The November 1877 baptism record I think would be the more accurate of the two records. He couldn’t have been born on 6 February 1878, and then gone back in time to be baptized on 16 November 1877.

Michael would have been baptized as soon as possible after he was born, as Catholics at that time believed if you were not baptized before you died, you would not go to heaven, but end up in a nether world called Limbo, located between heaven and hell. In Limbo, you would be deprived of seeing the face of God, at least that’s what an Irish order of nuns called the Sisters of Mercy taught us in grammar school. 

The baptism of Michael King appears to show he and his parents were living in “Cartoon” at the time of the baptism. I suspect this may be a reference to Cortoon, which some genealogists would call a sub-townland. I couldn’t find a place called Cortoon in the Kilmainemore Civil Parish, County Mayo, in an Irish property tax record mentioned by volunteers Roger McDonnell and Patricia, called Griffiths Valuation, nor in the townlands.ie website, or in the IreAtlas Townland Data Base website.

But, I did locate Cortoon in Google Maps, which shows it is 9/10ths of mile south of Turin: https://tinyurl.com/mvhskztz

The following links will bring you to Google Street Views of Turin and Cortoon:

Turin: https://tinyurl.com/34e2wwzj

Cortoon: https://tinyurl.com/mw3296u2

The Google Street View of Cortoon shows what appears to be a very old barn with a corrugated roof. But, this would have been a house at one time along the road. You can tell it was a house by the large chimney toward the left gabled end of the roof. This roof may have been thatched at one time.

Cortoon may have been a part of Turin. Or it could have been a part of the nearby townlands of Cartron Lindsay, or Cartron Kirwan.

You can see the Cartron locations, along with Cortoon, Hundredacres, and Turin, on another Google Map: https://tinyurl.com/2vh7pu7r

There is a townland called Cartoon in County Mayo, but this townland was in the civil parish and Catholic Parish of Killala, located about 50 miles north of Turin, near the oceanside town of Ballycastle: https://tinyurl.com/ydmefcj8

Turin and Cortoon on the other hand, were in the civil parish of Kilmainmore, and Catholic Parish of Kilmaine.

Locating Michael King’s birth and baptism records prompted me to look for the marriage of his parents, John King and Ellen McManus. 

Their civil marriage record would reveal where each was living just before they married, and would also record the date of the marriage, the church where the marriage took place, John’s occupation, the names of John and Ellen’s parents, the witnesses to the marriage, and the name of the priest who married them. 

I found the marriage at the irishgenalogy.ie website, which shows they were married in the R.C. Chapel of Kilcommon, County Mayo, on 20 January 1875.

Both were of “full age” when they married, meaning age 21 or older. John was a “Bachelor” and Ellen a “Spinster” when they married. 

John’s occupation was “Farmer.” His residence at the time of marriage was Ballyheeragh. His father is Michael King, a “Farmer.”

Ellen is recorded as a “Farmer’s daughter.” Her residence at the time of marriage was Roos. Her father was Edward McManus, a “Farmer,” who was “deceased.”

John and Ellen were married by Edward King, P.P. The initials P.P stand for “Parish Priest.” Father Edward King may have been related to John and his family.

The witnesses to the marriage were Michael King and Winifred McManus. Michael and Winifred, as well as the groom and bride, signed the marriage register with “their x marks,” signifying they could not write.

You can access the marriage record at: 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_re…

John’s residence at the time of marriage was either Ballyheeragh (St. Leger), or Ballyheeragh (Caslane). Roos is a little over 3 miles from the Ballyheeraghs. See the Google Map: https://tinyurl.com/mw52tek8

Roos, Ballyheeragh (St. Leger), and Ballyheeragh (Caslane) in turn, were between 8 and 9 miles northeast of Turin, and just west of the County Galway border: https://tinyurl.com/5xetyskn

The next civil registration birth record I found was for Mary King. She was born in Ballyheeragh on 1 November 1879. Her father John is a “Labourer” in Ballyheeragh. Her mother is Ellen King, formerly McManus. The person who was present at the birth and who reported the birth to the registrar was Patrick King of Ballyheeragh. Mary’s birth record is number 151 in the register: 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Once again however, Mary’s baptism record differs on her day and month of birth. She was baptized in the Kilcommon and Robeen Catholic Parish on 25 May 1879. Her godparents are William and Honor Connelly. Mary’s parents John and Mary McManus had made a contribution to the church of 2 Pence, 8 ½ Shillings.

Mary’s baptism is on the left-hand register page, 5th baptism down from the top: 
https://search.findmypast.com/record?id=IRE%2FPRS%2FMICROFILM04216-03%2…

Subsequent King birth records show the children were also born in Ballyheeragh, and not immediately outside of Turin in Hundredacre or Cortoon.

This indicates that the King family did not live in very close proximity to Turin after the baptism of Michael in 1877.

I didn’t find any of John and Ellen King’s children baptized in the Kilmaine Catholic Parish after Mary’s baptism in 1877. The National Library of Ireland shows that Kilmaine Parish baptisms are available until 6 January 1881: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1072?locale=en

The 1901 census of Ireland shows the King family living in Ballyheeragh (St. Leger). Ellen King, age 45, is a widow by 1901. In the household with her are three of her children, 18 year old Pat; 16 year old Bridget; and 13 year old Ellen, all born in County Mayo. Ellen’s son Michael, who was baptized in 1877, is not in the household. 

The census further shows that Ellen was a “Farmer,” and that she could speak both Irish and English.

The 1901 census transcription at the following link, is from the National Archives of Ireland:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Kilcommon/Ballyh…

Once the transcription downloads, tick the box, “show all information” to view the full census.

Notice in the census that 45 year old Ellen can read and write, but she had to sign her 1875 marriage register with her mark in the form of an x.

Also, I did not find a birth record for Ellen’s son Patrick.

For a copy of the original 1901 census for Ellen King and her children, go to: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001067937/

Scroll down the census page to the right-hand corner. You’ll see that Ellen signed the census unassisted.

The 1911 census shows that 68 year old widow Ellen King is still living in “Ballyheragh” (St. Ledger ). Her occupation is “Farmer.”

Two of her adult children are in the household with her. They are 29 year old Patrick, and 25 year old Bridget. Also in the household is Ellen’s granddaughter, 11 year old Maggie O’Neill.

The census shows that Ellen and her son can speak booth Irish and English. See the 1911 census transcription at:
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Kilcommon/Ballyh…

For a copy of the original 1911census go to: https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002966151/

In the 1901 census Ellen was recorded as being 45 year old. In the 1911 census, she gained 23 years, as she is now recorded as being 68 years old. This shows you cannot always trust the age of a person in either the 1901 or 1911 Irish household returns. 

You search the 1901 and 1911 Irish census enumerations at the National Archives of Ireland website link: : https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

Ellen King’s husband John died in Ballyheeragh on 12 November 1897, at the age of 50. His occupation had been, “Land Holder.” The cause of death was, “Chronic Rheumatism & asthma years.” His daughter Mary King of Ballyheeragh, reported the death to the local registrar. See the death record at: 
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Ellen King died in Ballyheeragh on 14 March 1927 at the age of 78. 

Her occupation was “Farmer.” The cause of death was “Carcinoma of Liver one year.” Bridget O’Neill of Ballyheeragh, was present at the death and reported the death to the registrar: https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_retu…

Bridget O’Neill may have been the mother of Maggie O’Neill, who was in Ellen King’s household in the 1911 census.

A search of the 1901 and 1911 Irish census enumerations does not show anyone named King recorded in Turin.

Is the surname McManus recorded anywhere in your King DNA matches?

One suggestion I have to find out if anyone named King actually lived in Turin, is to visit the Valuation Office in Dublin City, if you make another  trip to Ireland.

You can request to view the revision books, also known as the cancelled books and current land books, to see if anyone named King had acquired property in Turin, County Mayo. 

The revision books are not online at present, but are being digitized by the Valuation Office.

Roger McDonnell had pointed out in his message that there was no one with the surname King recorded in Turin, in Griffiths Valuation for the year 1855. But you can see if any Kings were recorded there after 1855, or after the 1911 census in the revision books.

For detailed information about the revision books, go to the Irish Genealogy Toolkit website link at: https://tinyurl.com/2ewrcxvc

For additional information, as well as contacting the Valuation Office, see the Valuation Office’s Genealogy page at: https://tailte.ie/en/valuation/archive-research/genealogy/

Michael, one question I have is, does your DNA-matched cousin have any primary source records, such as civil registration birth or marriage records, or church baptism and marriage records, showing that your direct King line had lived in Turin, County Mayo? 

Hundred Acres and Cortoon were the closest I could find for the King surname living in close proximity to Turin, followed by Ballyheeragh 
(St. Leger).

Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

SOURCES

IrelandXO Volunteer Roger McDonnell's reply to Michael Pomerantz dated Sunday 6th Oct 2024
Patricia's reply to Michael Pomerantz dated Monday 7th Oct 2024
irishgennealogy.ie 
Google Maps
Google Street Views
townlands.ie
IreAtlas Townland Data Base
National Library of Ireland 
National Archives of Ireland 1901 and 1911 census enumerations
Valuation Office, Dublin 
Irish Genealogy Toolkit
 

Dave:

Thanks for all your research!

Roger

You're welcome Roger. It's great to have the message board back again!

Dave
 

Dear Roger, Patricia and especially Dave,

Can I take this opportunity to thank you profusely for the incredible response you made in reference to my initial query about the King family in or around Turin in County Mayo. The scholarship, the detail and the precise care you have expended in this reply is absolutely staggering. It constitutes a unique and treasured "peak experience" in my retirement career as an amateur family historian. 

My query was precipitated by an email that I received from a DNA matched cousin who believes we are both linked to a specific King family in County Mayo. She has a copy of your postings and is enquiring of her family so we can provide responses to the helpful questions that you post. This may take some time as she has asked for help from a cousin who visits County Mayo.

I have recommended your Ireland XO group to many other amateur genealogists in Derbyshire where I work and facilitate a local U3A family history group. In 2017 I journeyed to Tracton near Cork with the intention to meet with a local historian who works with Ireland XO. Upon arrival I entered a room in a village hall and was greeted by 11 previously unknown Drinan cousins. That was another "peak experience." See attached photograph of that reunion. My great grandfather Michael Francis King was married to Mary D. Drinan from Tracton

If and when further information is gathered I will post again to this site. Meanwhile best wishes.