Charles McManus born 1819 to Margaret Kelly in County Down

Don:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

You are posting correctly. Just so you know, all posts either at the parish or county level also show up on our main general message board.

I searched the subscription site Roots Ireland and I think I located baptismal records for two younger siblings to Charles. The parish, Ballynahinch, has baptismal records start in 1827 so there would not be a record for Charles or any other sibling born before 1827. Note the first record shows Mary Kelly instead of Margaret but likely it is the same family. I did not find a marriage record for Henry and Margaret.

I checked the 1863 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Magheradrool civil parish (which includes Ballynahinch) and there was no Henry McManus listed but there was a Margafret McManus listed which possibly could be the mother of Charles, Margaret and Catherine.  Margaret lived in Glasdrumman townland.

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/down/magheradrool.php

Let me know if you have any questions.

Roger McDonnell

Name:Margaret McmanusDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:20-Mar-1828Address:
Parish/District:BALLYNAHINCHGender:FemaleCountyCo. Down
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Henry McmanusMother:Mary KellyOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Margaret Mcguire Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Charles Kelly 

Name:Catherine McmanusDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:03-Apr-1830Address:
Parish/District:BALLYNAHINCHGender:FemaleCountyCo. Down
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Henry McmanusMother:Margaret KellyOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:John Gordon Sponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Anne Mcgilland 

Again thanks so much Roger for taking an interest here. I also was able to puzzle out part of the information on Margaret and Catherine McManus and noted the maiden name of Kelly - so that feels close but still uncertain. I also found a Sep 19, 1819 entry for a Charles McManus in Loughinisland with a Pat McManus as father. I guess the two areas are quite close. That feels strong as well but uncertain as I can't tie anything together with Charles and Margaret Kelly and the parental first names are off so I don't feel like I have sorted this out. Perhaps Pat and Henry were brothers and each married a Kelly - or maybe the father of all was Henry Patrick McManus and he changed which first name he used on records and something similar for his wife?  Also other people have found a John McManus (born about 1796 in Ireland) who had a son Charles (born in 1831 in Missouri, USA) and the two Charles have become intertwined and confused and combined on a number of family trees, (because  Ireland, Missouri and rough timing are common to both)  though I think they are two different people.

Regards,

Don Robinson

Don:

Yes, the two parishes are very close. My grandmother was from the same area in Co. Down and emigrated to Philadelphia in 1909.

Louginisland was the site of one of the worst tragedies of the Irish Troubles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loughinisland_massacre   I was in Ireland when this massacre occurred.

Have you considered DNA testing?

Roger

Roger: I have done autosomal testing with many matches but none that helped me get past Charles unfortunately. I guess most have the same problems getting back past the early 1800s. Is there any way  to assume two brothers or cousins (Henry and Pat McManus) in the area married two sisters or cousins  (Mary and Margaret Kelly) in the area and get to their common ancestors? Maybe helping is that Charles had a cousin John Kelly, perhaps about the same age and presumably from the same area.(several puzzle pieces but not enough probably)

Regards,

Don

Don:

I personally would not make the assumption that Pat and Henry were brothers or cousins. They may be but evidence not conclusive. Getting back a generation before Charles may never happen due to the lack of records particularly for RC families.

On DNA testing, I would look into Genesis Gedmatch www.genesis.gedmatch.com   Genesis Gedmatch is a volunteer run site where you can load your DNA data and see matches with people who tested with another company and also loaded their data to Genesis Gedmatch. It expands your matching pool.  

Roger

Thanks Roger. Also for what it is worth as an additional clue, I found the birth of Henry McManus - son of Henry McManus, on 10 Mar 1806 in Loughinisland. This son Henry born in 1806 would be about the right age to be Henry the father of Margaret and Catherine in Ballynahinch in 1828 & 1830. Mary Kelly would then be his wife - probably born about 1810 nearby. That makes a lot of sense. It leaves their nearby older (perhaps by 5-10 years) relatives Pat McManus and Margaret Kelly as the parents of Charles. Seems likely that the families' immediate roots were in Loughinisland around 1800 and by around 1827 at least part were in Ballynahinch. Patrick and the older Henry could easily be brothers with a father named Henry born around 1755 - 1765 nearby. I like to try on reasonable assumptions to see if I can find supporting facts given a starting place to look. Sometimes something turns up that fits but the lack of records here probably won't allow much testing of assumptions.  Thoughts?

Regards,

Don