I’ve come across a tantalizing clue about my mother’s family’s Irish origins that I don’t know how to pursue and I am hoping that someone can point me in the right direction for pursuing this new research opportunity.
I’ve spent years trying to discover where in Ireland my g-g-grandparents Patrick Martin (c. 1825 Ireland – 1889 NYC) and Margaret Joyce (c. 1825 Ireland – 1886 NYC) originated, their parents’ or siblings’ names, etc. A possible marriage record for them shows a Patrick Martin and Margaret Joyce marrying at Saints Michael & John in Dublin on November 1, 1845.
Through DNA testing with Ancestry.com, I recently discovered a probable sister for Patrick, Elizabeth Martin Corcoran (c. 1826 Ireland – 1905 NYC). On one of Elizabeth’s records, it says she was born in Dublin, that her parents were born in Dublin, and that her father’s occupation was “crier in court.”
Does anyone have any ideas on how I can proceed with this info, especially the father’s occupation? Court records? Dublin directories? Unfortunately, neither Patrick’s or Elizabeth’s NYC death record lists parents’ names; I am *guessing*, based on Irish naming patterns (Patrick’s eldest son and Elizabeth’s second son), that their father was named Joseph Martin, but that’s all I’ve got.
Would appreciate any input. Thanks in advance for your help.
Michael Wynne, Chicago
Michael Wynne
Tuesday 28th May 2019, 05:46PMMessage Board Replies
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A Crier in court is an assistant to the Judge, sometime called a Tipstaff. Directories from this time, e.g. Treble Almanac, include listings of the various legal professions - Judges, Barristers, Solicitors etc, but I dont think there are any specific lists for Criers/Tipstaff.. FindMyPast has some directories around this time e.g. 1822 and 1833, but the indexing and search function only allow a basic search, with no filter to allow for legal sections of the directory only. I have a copy of the 1829 Treble Almanac, and there are various sections for the various courts in the first part of the directory (Watson's) starting on page 75 .. I'll have a look through and see if any Criers/Tipstaff are mentioned...
I dont think Criers attended King's Inn, which was where the higher legal professions trained, and unfortunately most of the historic records for the Dublin city courts and other higher National courts based in Dublin were lost in the Four Courts Fire.
For reference SS. Michael & John's is a Catholic Church & Parish, and like most of the records for this timeframe the marriage for Patrick & Margaret has very basic details recorded - date of marriage, names of the bride and groom and the two witnesses, so no occupation, residence or father's name to use as clues to work back further..
Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Wednesday 29th May 2019, 09:24AM -
shanew147,
Your input is very much appreciated.
MW
Michael Wynne
Thursday 30th May 2019, 03:47PM -
In the legal listings I found a number of clerks, ushers, assisants etc, only a couple of Criers specifically mentioned..
from Treble Almanac, part 1 (Watson's Directory)
Court of Chancery, page 75
Wm. Crowther, Crier
Court of King's Bench, page 76
John Scott, Tipstaff
Court of Common Pleas, page 76
James Johnston, Crier
Court of Exchequer, page 77
C. Smith O'Grady, Chief Crier of the Exchequer
Shane Wilson, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘
Tuesday 4th Jun 2019, 02:07PM -
Thank you for your help! I appreciate you taking the time.
I suspect that as he started having children in the mid 1820s, that he would have been relatively young in 1829 and wouldn't show up until later editions (if at all). I guess my other option is to skim street listings to see if a Martin is listed with some sort of similar role as his occupation. If anyone else has any suggestions ...
Thanks again for your help.
Michael Wynne
Wednesday 5th Jun 2019, 03:36PM