Finding Margaret Sayers

Robyn,

Birth certificates were only introduced in Ireland in 1864, so you won’t find a birth certificate for Margaret or her fellow passengers. You might find her baptism if you know her precise denomination, and if the records still exist, but if they do, they may not be on-line.

Looking at the 1901 census of Co Donegal there were 53 people named Sayers, and several of those families lived around Dunfanaghy. There was 1 Presbyterian family and the rest were Church of Ireland (Anglican). Dunfanaghy Presbyterian church has records from 1830 onwards but unfortunately Dunfanaghy Church of Ireland only has records from 1873, and the other Church of Ireland church in the parish at Clondahorky likewise only has records from 1871. Their early records were lost in the 1922 fire in Dublin. The Presbyterian records have been copied and are in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast. If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

I suggest that you try and find Margaret’s parents names from her marriage or death certificate in New Zealand as otherwise it may be hard to be sure you have the correct family/families. We can then search for siblings and for the parents deaths, assuming they were post 1864.

I found a Moses Sayers in the 1901 census, here:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Donegal/Kincraigy/Carricknamart/1188880/

Now obviously that isn’t your Moses, but it’s a fairly unusual name, and families here tended to repeat the same names generation after generation, so he might be related somehow. I note he was Church of Ireland.

Marriage records from April 1845 onwards are on-line. I found 3 males in the period 1845 – 1855 in the Dunfanaghy registration area. Possibly one of them might be your family, but you’ll need to find the parents names to know for sure.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1848/09349/5385162.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09409/5408553.pdf

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1852/09430/5416024.pdf

There were 2 female marriages there as well in the same period. They all married in Clondahorky Church of Ireland.

Being either Church of Ireland or Presbyterian and living in Donegal, and having a surname that is common in Scotland, tends to point to the families being descended from Scots who settled in the Dunfanaghy area in the 1600s.

Hello Elwyn,

Thank you for your speedy reply and for all the information included.  I have some work ahead of me.  

Although I do have a copy of Margaret's marriage certificate, there are no parents names on the certificate.  These were not included at that stage in New Zealand.  All I have are the names of the bride and groom, their occupations and the names of the two witnesses.  One of them is Mary, Margaret's sister.  I have not got her Death Certificate but will look into that.

I agree with you about Moses being an unusual name and hoped that would bring success.  I did find a Moses who spent 10 years in the Royal Ulster Constabulary which the dates could have fitted, but no more information just yet.

The family name connection to Scotland is interesting, as the three left Ireland and went to Clyde/ Glasgow to leave for New Zealand rather than London or Liverpool.  I realise that maybe a coincidence but it is interesting.

I have looked on Griffith's Valuation and some other sites, and seen some of the Sayers but without the parents names it is just guessing.

Thank you again for this information and I will follow up your suggestions.

Regards

Robyn

Robyn,

Huge numbers of Scots settled in Ireland in the 1600s, mostly in the counties of Ulster, which includes Donegal. Something like 200,000 came then, either as part of the Plantation of Ulster or for other reasons eg there was a huge surge in the 1690s due to famine in Scotland.

There’s always been a lot of travel between Donegal and Scotland. In the 1800s and until about 1960 there was a regular overnight ferry service from the port of Derry to Glasgow. So it was always easy to get there if you were joining a ship, or for any other reason.  That’s almost certainly how your family got to Scotland.

Today many folk from Donegal go to Scotland for work, and there are daily flights from Derry to Glasgow & Edinburgh and from Donegal airport to Glasgow.  There’s even a regular bus from Donegal to Glasgow (Leaves Dunfanaghy at 07.35 and arrives Glasgow at 16.00).  So those links continue.

Regarding death certificates, what happened to Moses Sayers? Where did he die? Probably worth trying to find his death certificate to find if his parents were the same as the 2 sisters. What denomination of church did the 2 sisters marry in? Anglican or Presbyterian? Tradition here was to marry in the bride’s church (after which she’d attend her husband’s) so it might be a clue as to the Sayers family’s precise denomination.

Regarding the Moses Sayers in the RIC, there are copies of RIC service records in various locations including PRONI in Belfast. The PSNI (police) museum in Belfast also has copies and will look them up for a fee.

https://www.psni.police.uk/about-us/our-history/genealogy#no-back

That should tell you when left the RIC and why. In addition to the obvious causes eg sacked or retired, it sometimes says things like “left to go to New Zealand.”  It will also tell you where he served, if you are interested. (He would not have served in Donegal as policy was not to post officers to counties where they had family connections.) Unfortunately the record won’t tell you his parents names or precisely where he was born. Only the county he was from, which you already know was Donegal.

If you can find the parents names, let us know and we’ll search for them for you.

Some information on Clodahorky (the parish that includes Dunfanaghy) here:

http://donegalgenealogy.com/Clondahorkyproj.htm

Hello Elwyn,

Once again thank you for all of the information you have provided. It is most interesting particularly the modern connections with Scotland.

I will follow up your suggestions and let you know if I have any success finding Margaret's parents.

May I ask a favour please?  I cannot read most of the marriage certificate in the first link you gave me - 5385162.  Is it possible you can read the names and if so let me know what they are please?  The best I can do is Bachelor, Widow, Farmer, Doe Castle and Church of Ballymore.  The writing on the others is more legible.

Regards

Robyn

Robyn,

Marriage solemnized at Ballymore in the Diocese of Raphoe in the County of Donegal

March 7^th 1848 Chas (Charles) Sayers aged 26, bachelor, farmer, Doe Castle, son of Richd (Richard) Sayers, farmer.

Mary McElhinny 30 widow of Doe Castle, daughter of John McKim farmer. Witnesses William McKim & Isaac McElhinny.

Doe Castle is likely Doocashel Glebe which had several Sayers households in it in Griffiths  Valuation (1857).

The only Richard Sayers farming in Clondahorky in the 1834 tithes was in Cashelmore.

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587419/004587419_00485.pdf

No sign of him in Griffiths so I’d say he died pre 1857.

Wow Elwyn, that is brilliant thank you.  It makes sense now I can see your translation.

Actually that is how I found Margaret on her shipping list.  She was listed as Margt, not Margaret.

I have so much to learn.

I'll get back to you when I have something to share.

Thank you

Robyn