Flynn / Veale Connection in County Waterford (1830 - 1850)

n.b. Apologies for mixing use of emigration and immigration. - Mike

Mike:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

First, you have done a great job in finding solid leads on your Flynn and Veale connections. I searched on the subscription site Roots Ireland and did not find any other children besides Mary. Here is a link to the parish register for Kill/Rossmore/Kilberrymeaden RC parish  https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1110  You may want to scan the baptismal records in the 1840s for James and any other children. Sometimes the entries are so illegible that the transcribers are not able to transcribe.the record. Kilmacthomas town is actually in two different civil parishes (Ballylaneen and Rossmire).

I did not find a marriage record.

Here are links for the 1850 Griffiths Valuation head of household listings for Ballylaneen and Rossmire civil parishes. You will note that there are quite a few Veale records including a Robert Veale in Carriegeen townland. Possibly he is the father of Bridget. I see five Flynns in Ballylaneen parish and one Flynn in Rossmire parish but no Thomas. Although I notice three female Flynns and ussually they are widows holding the lease and possibly one is the father of Thomas.

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/waterford/ballylaneen.htm

https://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/waterford/rossmire.htm

I looked at the Tithe listings for Veale records. I located an 1833 R. Veale record in Kilmacthomas. He only had an acre of land. Not sure if this is your Robert or not. http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625713/004625713_00299.pdf

Let me know what questions you have.

Roger mcDonnell

Thanks, Roger. That's more help than I could have hoped for. This is a wonderful community. Attached is an image of a marriage record that may be for Thomas and Bridget - 16 Jul 1842. The entry is immediately to the write of the number 16, upper left page.

Mike

Thanks, Roger. That's more help than I could have hoped for. This is a wonderful community. Attached is an image of a marriage record that may be for Thomas and Bridget - 16 Jul 1842. The entry is immediately to the write of the number 16, upper left page.

Mike

Mike:

I agree that it appears to be your record. The priest for some reason just showed initials for Thomas and Bridget which complicates the search.

Roger

Hi Roger or others who might be able to help,

I now realize that the original post should probably have been placed in the Waterford community but I don't know how to move the entire thread so I'll keep it here. 

I'd like some additional thoughts based on further reserach and also hitting a bit of a roadblock.

I feel pretty confident that the Thomas Flinn and Bridget Vaele that I've found residing around parishes Kilbarrymeaden, Portlaw and others adjacent are the correct ancestors. I have a marriage record with the correct names and appropriate timeframe. I have baptismal records with their names and those of their children born in Ireland. However, I cannot find any further records for Bridget between 1847 (last baptismal record) and 1849/1850. The latter date is about when I would expect Thomas (husband) to have emigrated from Ireland, based on family history and the reported birth of a third child in the state of New York in 1850.

In addition, it appears that Thomas had taken a second wife by the time the third child was born. I have not yet found a formal record but several censuses indicate that he was married to a Mary. Her maiden name was reportedly Mary Murphy according to family history. Strangely, there is a Mrs. Thomas Flynn (spelling changed) in the same cemetery where Thomas is buried but there is no death record for a Mary Flynn/Flinn. I did find a passenger list in 1849 from Liverpool to New York with both a Thomas Flinn and Mary Murphy. Of course this is not absolute proof but I have not been able to find Bridget on any Passenger List, with or without Thomas, within a reasonable timeframe and accompanying children. In fact, the children are reported to have crossed independently when they were older.

I am now considering a few possible scenarios or Bridget's life path. These are, 1) Bridget died before Thomas left, 2) she stayed behind, or 3) she was forced to travel somewhere else.

Scenario 1: I have not be able to locate any record of death in several locations of County Waterford where either Bridget was born or lived with Thomas.

Scenario 2: I have not found any record for Bridget Flinn remaining in these same areas. However, I would like to determine if she and/or children were inmates at the Kilmacthomas or another workhouse. It seems possible she died there or for some reason remained locally upon release from the workhouse.

Scenario 3: I found a record of a Bridget Veale being convicted of larceny (1848) for stealing wheat and potatoes, in county Waterford. She was forcibly deported to Van Damien's Land (Tasmania) in 1849. Is it possible that this person is my gg grandmother? If so, why would her name have reverted to her maiden name. What further proof could I find to determine if this really was my ancestor?

Thanks in advance for any further help.

Mike

Mike:

Out of curiousity did you find James' baptismal record in 1847 on the register?

Regarding Bridget, I don't think you will find any workhouse records which itemize the inmates. 1847-1849 was the height of An Gorta Mor i.e. the Famine. Workhouses all over Ireland were overflowing with people. Typhus and other illnesses were very prevalent.

Possibly Bridget refused to go to America and stayed in Waterford with the two children. The child in 1847 (James?) would have been very young and Mary would have been 4-5. I think that Bridget died maybe soon after the birth of the 1847 child and the two children were cared for by relatives. Thomas found Mary Murphy and off they went to America. 

Civil registration of deaths started in 1864. A few churches have pre-1864 death info but not your parish.

I don't subscribe to Scenario 3.

Roger

Thanks, Roger. You are correct about the location of James's baptismal record in the parish registers. It's such a shame about the workhouses, not just for me but for so many others. In light of your thoughts about about the last scenario I think that for the foreseeable future, I resign myself to not knowing what happened to her. This journey in family research has left the deepest impact of all the ancestors that I've gotten to know. I greatly admire Bridget for everything she must have gone through.

I will probably keep my eyes out on the DNA front for any potential connection that I may share with possible descendants of the Bridget Vaele who ended up in Tasmania.

Thanks again for your great insights.

Mike