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My grandfather Michael Ryan is in the 1911 Ireland census in a co Clare townland with his sisters Mary and Ann ;their birthplace is noted as Glin Co Limerick.

There is an entry in the 1901 Ireland census for Killacolla Barker, Glin: mother Catherine O'Brien, daughters Lizzie Ryan and Ann Ryan - we believe my grandfather was born in 1901 but might not yet have been born.

I believe this is my grandfather's family but how do I prove it? I have found no birth certificates for any of the five siblings, their marriage certificates in Ireland and the UK give several father's names and we believe that the parents died when my grandfather was very young. 

Grateful for any advice!

Tracey

Thursday 14th Mar 2013, 04:46PM

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  • http://ifhf.rootsireland.ie/quis.php?page=0&prevStartQuery=0


    Shows a Michael Ryan b. 1901 also a Michael O'Brien. Mothers Kate and Catherine. Michael Ryan father Edmond but no daughters Mary or Ann.


     


    I found them using this technique-


    In this example I was looking for a Minnie and Catherine Wiley sisters parents unknown.


    How I did it was to use the pay to view site


    http://rootsireland.ie/


    I did firstly a national search for Minnie which threw up a couple both in Antrim. I then switched to County Antrim.


    By playing about with the date range I was able to narrow down the baptism to a specific year. I still have not used the pay to view option yet nor used up any of my limited number of free previews. Once I had a Minnie I had to find her parents first names. I started with father first name a - this would bring up any firstnames starting with "a". Working through the alphabet got me to H when I got a hit adding further letters and worked out father was Hugh. Search then for Wiley children no firstname father Hugh within ten years of Minnie. Got 6 hits and using same technique was able to work out the 6 names - but no Catherine. Minnie is a common nickname so reverted to Catherine. Broad search found two which narrowed down to one in 1868 and one in 1872. Was able to work out 1868 was daughter of John and Mary. Broad search found no other children to this couple. 1872 Catherine was daughter of John and Jane and a broad search threw up 9 children. Plodding through the alphabet got me Alexander, Eliza, Catherine, Eleanor, Francis, John, James, Samuel, Wilhemina, which was more complicated since it is usually spelled WilheLmina.  Catherine I knew was 1872, and bit of playing about with date range got me 1881 for Wilhemina. Age gap fits the two sisters although the ages are well out - no surprises there!


    You can play about with the dates until you match up the other 7 children. You can refine it a bit more by choosing one child then working your way through the drop down menu of the various parishes until you get a hit. Then you can see if all the other children were also in the same parish. Bearing in mind couples did move about as well as changing churches. It is quite possible that these 9 children were born to more than one couple named John and Jane.  Getting one transcript should give mothers maiden name and doing a broad search for baptisms to John and Jane with new surname hopefully should confirm 9 children. However many older records do not list mother's maiden name. Using this technique you can gain a lot of data without using up your limited number of free searches or having to buy any transcripts.


     


    Bob Graham (County Fermanagh XO)


     

    Friday 15th Mar 2013, 01:15AM
  • Thanks Bob, you certainly need a lot of patience to track down ancestors; luckily I seem to have limitless searches on Rootsireland so I will give this a go. I'm still not convinced of the birthplace for all the children so your method might do the trick. Roll on the weekend!

     

    Tracey

    Friday 15th Mar 2013, 07:06AM
  • Remarrying was commonplace at that time. Catherine had at least two husbands you know of. Perhaps she had more or even had children out of wedlock.You cannot rule out the possibilty that the 3 children had different fathers. Unfortunate that you are searching one of the most popular names. Do you have definite proof that Michael had sisters Mary and Ann/


     


    Bob Graham


    (County Fermanagh XO)


     


     

    Friday 15th Mar 2013, 08:43AM
  • Hi Bob

    I'm not sure whether Catherine O'Brien had remarried or whether she had reverted to her maiden name once widowed ( her status in the 1901 census)

    There were definitely ( at least)  5 siblings that we know of; Mary ( Minnie) , Patrick and Lizzie, all born between about 1888and 1892, then Ann ( Nancy) and Michael born between 1899 and 1901, but I have found no birth certificates. 

    I am not sure why there was such a gap, perhaps there were stillbirths, or children dying young. The father could have been abroad as he was possibly a soldier

    I believe the reason for the disparity in names for the father was that he had died so early in their lives; Minnie Patrick and lizzie all have Thomas as their father so I have assumed that is correct as they would have a memory of him. 

    Tracey 

    Friday 15th Mar 2013, 03:12PM

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