Isabella Gardner McDivid

Marj,

If Isabella was 19 in 1879, then she was born around 1860, and so before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864).  So you won’t find a birth certificate for her. Prior to that you need to rely on church baptism records, where they survive.

You don’t say what denomination she was. I looked at the 1901 Irish census and there’s no-one named McDivid in the country at all. The more likely spelling of the surname in Ireland is probably McDevit(t). There’s about 800 of them in Ireland at that time. 34 were named James. None was a carpenter though. Plenty around Belfast. Most were RC though there were a few of other denominations. I had a look at the on-line RC baptisms for Ireland on Ancestry but did not see a baptism for an Isabella c 1860 to father James, in Belfast. Having a middle name of Gardner would hint at Presbyterianism to me. (They often used the mother’s maiden name as a middle name). Do you know what denomination Isabella was?

Only the RC baptism records are all on-line. With other denominations, some are on-line on sites such as rootsireland (subscription) but many are not. There are copies of most of the surviving records in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast but if you don’t know which church the family attended it’s a needle in a haystack. For example there’s nearly 50 Presbyterian churches in Belfast.

I searched for James McDevitt deaths in Belfast 1864 – 1921. There were only 2 and both were children. So no leads there. There are no censuses in Ireland prior to 1901, so that does not help either. Have you looked for James in England? Perhaps he moved the whole family there. Might be worth checking the 1871 census to see if they are in it.

 

Hello Elwyn,

Thank you so much for replying.

I don't know which denomination Isabella was and I couldn't find a parish marriage for her either which would've probably given a clue.

I searched all census records I could find pre and post 1881 for any sign of Isabella, or James and family, with no luck either. There are some McDivid's in UK, Scotland and USA but none I could link in any way to James or Isabella either as census or immigration records. The 1881 census had her aged 19yrs b.about 1862 yet the marriage record 1879 also has her age 19yrs which makes her b. about 1860.

I could only find one death record for an Isabella Wilson who drowned but the mother who identified her was named Wilson and it wasn't her mother in law either and the newspaper articles on the death made no reference to a husband or baby as next of kin.

I searched the Irish Genealogy website for parish baptisms for all denominations but drew a blank there too. I, too, assumed Gardner was her mother's maiden name but that didn't help me much with records.I had a search done with the head Anglican Church Dublin for another of my Irish families but they had no records so maybe I could get a search done with the Presbyterian church in Belfast to narrow the religion down a bit. Other than that will go to PRONI for a search. I am in Australia so have to do all online.

I'll have to go back and research "McDevitt"  instead and see what I can find. I don't seem to have much luck with my Irish girls and their families.

Kindest regards,

Marj

Marj,

Registry Office marriages sometimes indicate a mixed marriage. Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church but with mixed marriages that could create family tensions, and so marrying in a Registry Office was a way of avoiding offending one family, though it ran the risk of offending both instead. But some couples had other reasons for marrying there. (Time, money, atheists etc).

You could try searching the Belfast street directories for a James McDevitt, carpenter. That might be a clue as to where she came from. You’ll find them on the PRONI website for years from the early 1800s up to 1900.

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/information-and-services/search-archives-online/street-directories

The Ulster Historical Foundation site allows you to do a search for marriages using the fathers name. So I searched for McDevit(t) plus father James, in the hope of finding siblings for Isabella, but the only 2 on their site were post 1900, so not your family, I think.

https://www.ancestryireland.com

I looked for a will in Northern Ireland for a James McD, carpenter but did not find one.

Do not get too focused on McDivid as the precise spelling of Isabella’s name. It wasn’t spelled that way in Ireland. Of that I am sure.

The irishgenealogy site doesn’t have baptisms for parishes in what is now Northern Ireland. In fact there are huge gaps in what it has across Ireland as a whole, though they are increasing coverage all the time. Rootsireland (subscription) has a much bigger database but even it has many gaps, especially for Protestant denominations.  And I suspect Isabella was Protestant. (It’s much less common for Roman Catholics to use a mother’s maiden name as a middle name). Statistically, if she came from Belfast, Isabella was more likely to be Presbyterian than Anglican or RC. Belfast was largely built by Scots settlers (ie Presbyterians)  and for hundreds of years they were the predominant denomination. Unfortunately that means loads of church records, not all of which have survived. Some were lost due to German bombing in the 2nd world war.

This won’t be an easy search.

Hello Elwyn,

Some variations in marriage transcripts I came across before I ordered her marriage record had her as McDivis so I'm open to all variations of the name.My other Irish family were "Donne" with Dunn, Dunne, Dun, Don, and Done as variations - that kept me busy for a long while.

I'll start with the street directories and Rootsireland and see if I can find something there.

Thank you so much Elwyn for all the hints etc. It's going to be a BIG job.

Kind regards,

Marj

Hello Elwyn,

I found 3 McDevitt's in the post office directories but no James. In 1852 there was Neal McDevitt - Auctioneer and Clothes Broker, Bridge St, Coleraine and Bernard McDevitt - Publican, Kilowen St, Coleraine. In 1865 Bernard was still there plus an Edward McDevitt - Lodging House, Bridge St, Londonderry.

I found 3 Gardners in Ballymoney. 1) timber merchant, 2) an iron merchant and machine maker,3) a wool merchant and several in Ballymena, Ballynahinch, Londonderry, Lisburn and Armagh.

Kind regards,

Marj

 

 

Yes I think it's going to be very hard. DNA testing might match you with another branch of the family that knowns more about it's origins. 

Attached Files

Hi, 

I found this entry the other day.  Maybe James moved from Belfast to Londonderry?

Marj

Marj,

I looked to see if that James McD left a will but he did not, or not one that required probate anyway.

I looked in the 1901 census to see if there were any McDevitt families there (I note James was married in 1885). The only one there was a Neal McDevitt, aged 40, in a boarding house. He was aged 40. Born in the city.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/No__3_Urban/Foyle_Street/1529716/

I looked for Neal’s baptism in the RC church records but did not find it.

I looked for James in the 1880 street directory for the City of Londonderry but did not see him listed:

http://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/PT_L1880.htm#LONDONDERRY

Nor in the 1884 street directory of the city on the PRONI site.

You could contact Derry city council graveyards department to see if they have a record of James burial. If they do it will usually have some additional information about next of kin etc.

http://www.derrystrabane.com/Subsites/cemeteries-(1)/City-Cemetery-Guide

 

 

Attached Files

Hello Elwyn,

I have added a few attachments for UK as think I have found a connection between Gardner and McDevitt (McDivid, McDivet etc).

William Gardner (b.about 1825 Cumberland) married Mary Wright (b. about 1831 Ireland) in 1856 but they had no children that I could find.

1871 census has Bella McD Gardner age 8yrs b. Ireland, niece, with them but the only way she would be Gardner is if maybe her parents died and they took her in. There is a birth yr discrepency but ties in with her marriage age 18-19yr and same area.

The 1881 census has them with another niece Mary McDivet age 6yr who's mother maiden name is Wright. William is an Auctioneer Valuer and Isabella's hubby was an Auctioneer's Clerk so am thinking he worked for William and that's how he met Isabella. All the streets they lived on are in close proximity and in Ardwick Hulme Lancashire especially Hyde St. which is the St. given on her marriage record.

I found a Manchester Rates Book entry transcript for Isabella McDavid but the original entry says McDivid 1874.

I haven't found the connection between Isabella and Mary (child). Maybe they were cousins or ?sisters. Mary would've had to have been a relative on Mary Snr. side as have same family surname but can't work out if James McDevitt married a Gardner or a Wright in Ireland. I did find a marriage transcript which I added but haven't looked into yet. I am going to get Mary"s 1879 birth record to ascertain her parents.

I know all this is in UK but might help with the Irish side (I hope).

I'll contact Derry council and see what they say.

Kind regards,

Marj

 

Hello again Elwyn,

I forgot to say that the reason I think James McDevitt marriage attachment might be something is because Charles and Isabella named their son Alexander John (after Charles' father) William after ? Isabella Wright's father and/or William Gardner. Both are possible if marriage record is the right one.

Marj