King Family Boyle Elphin Roscommon

Jackie:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

I located the 1864 civil marriage record for Henry King and Martha Ryan. Henry was a Segeant in the Roscommon Militia. His father John was also a sergeant and Martha's father Michael was a corporal. see second record  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1864/11603/8270424.pdf

There are five civil birth records for their children  available at the free Irish government site www.irishgenealogy.ie  In addition, to Mary Alice and John Francis, there were unnamed children in 1872 and 1874 and a Jane in 1883. see second record for Jane. Henry was still in Militia    https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1883/02720/2000654.pdf

I found a likely baptismal record for Martha Ryan in 1845 on the subscription site Roots Ireland. See below. I did not see a record for Henry King with father John.

Roger McDonnell

Name:Martha RyanDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:16-Jan-1845Address:BoyleParish/District:BOYLE-CHURCH OF IRELANDGender:FemaleCountyCo. Roscommon
Denomination:Church Of Ireland
Father:Michael RyanMother:Mary Not RecordedOccupation:Pensioner
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Not Recorded Not RecordedSponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Not Recorded Not Recorded

This is probably not relevant info, but I couldn't help mentioning it, because the names Henry King and John King are somewhat common in one branch of my family which lived not too far away from there, and there's one Henry King who would be about the right age to be your Henry King, although his father's name was James.  His grandfather was named John King, however.  The other complications are that they were Catholic, and lived about 6-7 parishes away in Kilcolman parish in County Mayo.  Still, living that near, they may well be related, and some family members might have converted (as the Ryan family obviously must have done at some point, since Ryan would normally be a Catholic name).

I just went back to check the name of Henry's father in the parish register, and it does appear to be James, but it's one of the annoying abbreviations which the priests used back then.  They often used "Jas" for James and "Jno" for John, but in this case it's just "Js" (unless there's an "a" squeezed in there which I can't see).  I rechecked the baptismal records for his brother, Nicholas, too, and there it's clearly "Jas".

"My" Henry King was baptized in Kilcoman parish (Claremorris) 25 September 1841, and we have no records thus far as to whom he married.  if you want to see more about that branch of the family, you can see Henry in the (free) Family Search database under his identifier # LTDP-CM8.  Here's a link to Family Search, in case you're not familiar with it:  https://www.familysearch.org

There are a lot of our King records in that database, because I've made contact with King relatives living in the UK, and we've combined our info there.  I'm descended from "my" Henry King's great-uncle, Nicholas King (Nicholas is another name running in the family), who had also named his eldest son Henry.  That Henry (born 1837) would in fact also be of an age to match your Henry, but we know that he married a Mary Durcan in Kilcolman parish, and they were once again Catholic.

In case you've done DNA testing, I and several second-third cousins in my King line have also been tested, and we'd be happy to compare results.

Thank you so much for this information ! This is fantastic.   I will take more of a look at the irishgeneology.ie link as well.     Kevin - We have done our DNA, we are on Ancestry.   Dad also has his on Gedmatch and possibly elsewhere, I will check.   It would be greate to compare DNA.  We will look further into familysearch.org, I think Dad has his DNA there but not sure. We also have matches to people in the UK, the part of the family that moved to Lancashire.    We have found an Eliza King b.1877, we thought initially this might be our Eliza, but she is catholic, a daughter of Edward King b.1835  and Catherine Devaney b.1845.  With DNA matches to Church of Ireland, we thought this unlikely.  Do you think I shouldn't discount this entirely ?    

Hi, Jackie!

My DNA test results are on GEDMATCH, and my kit number is T780556, in case you want to run it against your father's kit.  You can also check out these two second/third cousins of mine there, who are also King descendants:  John Flanigan:  A402627  &  Alexandra Adams:  A982929.

People joined the Church of Ireland (Church of England) for many reasons.  Some may have done it out of religious conviction, but many did so to save their land (that would be more the case in the 1600's and 1700's), to get ahead socially or economically, or when marrying someone who was not Catholic.  Catholics sometimes even converted, then when they were elderly converted back, so as to receive the last rights ("Extrene Unction") and die as Catholics.  In any case, it was not at all unknown to have an extended family where most were Catholic but some had become Protestant for one reason or another.

Hi Kevin!  Dads kit is A777720.  He checked the kit #s  At the normal cutoff there was no match, but he lowered it to 6 cm and matched.  I think he said that means 5 plus generations ago.  He is going to contact you via gedmatch.  Jackie

Hi, Jackie! I heard from your father, Trevor, and he does have a large number of small DNA matches with me and with both of my cousins, but with a pretty large total amount of shared DNA. 

I've responded to him at greater length, so he can fill you in more, but I agree that the DNA matches which we have indicate a connection probably 5+ generations back.  However, that's pretty much what we've been thinking anyway.  My gg-grandfather, Nicholas King, is 4 generations back from me, and his father John King (my ggg-grandfather) is 5 generations back.  As for my gggg-grandfather (6 generations back), I don't know what his name was, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was another Henry King, since the naming convention in those days was to name the first born son after the boy's paternal grandfather, and at least two of "my" John King's sons did just that.

An interesting possibility which I mentioned to your father is that we might even share "my" John King (my ggg-grandfather) as a common ancestor.  In addition to having my gg-grandfather, Nicholas, he had at least three other sons (plus several daughters) .  We know what happened to two of the other sons, since we have their family info, but there was a son named John King about whom we have no info (apart from his name, which one of the UK King's had in a family list).   He would probably have been born in the late 1810's or 1820's, before the online parish records begin for Kilcolman (Claremorris), and he might have been of an age to be the father of your Henry King and the grandfather of John Francis King and Mary Alice King, because people in thet area often married very young in those days.  That could even fit with the naming convention which I mentioned above, going from John to Henry to John Francis.

It's just a theory, but interesting, no?  If I learn anything more, I'll be sure to let your father know, since I have his email address now, and he can share anything I find with you and others.

-- Kevin

King House in Boyle is a museum that includes a section on the Connaught Rangers including records. Perhaps it might be of help to you.

visitkinghouse.ie

That's a fascinating site, jonjoe, thanks for posting the info!  It looks as though the King's were a very established family in Boyle.  Not sure whether my King;s are actually connnected, but I plan to look into it further.

Jacki.  I am linked into the trees you refer to.  I decend from the MEACLEM tree, that sailed to New Zealand (NZ).

Jacki.  Sorry, finger typo error.  surname is MEACLEM not as above, with 2 'e'

Hi Irish Lass! I've just seen your post. It would be good to compare your DNA. Are you descended from Alice King? I think you must be as that is where the Kings and Meclem join. What is your gedmatch #? Interesting if you match to all of the above!

Hi Kevin,  I found another DNA connection that could be of interest to you also.  DNA matches that lead back to an Elizabeth King b. 1874 Rockhampton Australia.   Her parents Patrick King b. Abt. 1820 m. Elizabeth Bermingham.  Only a marriage document in 1859 Athlone, Westmeath.  This has Patricks residence as Brideswell, Roscommon.  Roman Catholic.  Athlone parish appears/appeared to b partly in Westmeath, and partly in Roscommon which was a little confusing!  For  now, I'm assuming that the DNA is via King and not Bermingham :) Have to keep that possibility in mind..  Jackie

Still getting confused with Parishes, Baronies, townships etc.  Athlone isnt a Parish, its a town and from what I can see also a Barony.  Brideswell is in the Cam (Camma) parish.  However it does appear that Athlone is partly in Roscommon, and partly in Westmeath.  Correct me if I'm wrong please :)

Seems Athlone is a parish after all... its vey confusing!

Hi Jackie

I have not done the DNA testing.  I am a decendant on the MEACLEM tree, from the brother of the male whom married Alice KING in New Zealand.  There were only two brothers who immigrated to NZ with female siblings and their mother.  The male I decend from got married in Ireland prior to sailing to NZ.  Their father died around the same time (just before/after) the wedding.

Hi ☘️ Lass, I have part of your family in our tree. You know more about your family than I did of mine when I started. Your family came from Cavan in Ireland.I can share what I have with you. I'll think about how best to do that. Are you in Auckland or Christchurch? Family descended from Robert appeared to move between the two. Jackie

Do you have an account with MyHeritage, Ancestry or Family Search ?   We do have a connection to the Meaclems, I've made an assumption its via Alice King who married a Meaclem, we have a DNA match to these descendents only so far.   Robert m. Sarah Irwin had a daughter Elizabeth Lilly b. 1877 m. Cooper.   At one point I thought my great grandmother Eliza King b. 1877 might be her, but the DNA doesn't support that so far. (My great grandmother was an unmarried mother, my  grandmother was adopted out.  I have wondered if King was not her real surname, although we do have DNA connection to Kings from Ireland.  I do know who the father was as he is recorded as providing financial support. I also know that Eliza was visited in hospital by a Mrs Cooper, hence my interest in the Coopers :) )