Looking for help with O'Neill family in Killbannon

Is this your Patrick

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWYK-922

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Patrick Oneill's Spouses and Children

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Mary Oneill

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37

Haydock, Lancashire

Catherine Oneill

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F

31

Leigh, Lancashire

Bridget Oneill

Daughter

F

22

Leigh, Lancashire

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• Patrick O'Neil

  England and Wales Census, 1901

• Patrick O'Neil

Hello Linda,

There will not be a civil registration birth record for Patrick O'Neill in Ireland.

Civil registration began in Ireland in 1845, but at this time only Protestant and civil marriages were recorded by the government. Civil registration of births, marriages, and deaths for all religious denominations were not recorded by the government until 1864.

Because there isn't a birth record for Patrick, I wanted to see if there may have been a baptism record for him in the Kilbannon Catholic Parish, County Galway.

Based on the information you provided that Patrick married Margaret Carney in 1872, I learned that he was Roman Catholic. I found a copy of the original marriage record at Ancestry.com's collection: "Lancashire, England, Catholic Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1762-1913."

I know you have this marriage record, but I've attached it to this reply anyway in case you don't have a copy of the original. The marriage record shows that James O'Neill was a witness, and so I can see why you stated in your message that Patrick may have had a brother James.

I went to the free National Library of Ireland website to see how far back in time the Kilbannon Catholic Parish registers are available. The National Library of Ireland states the name of the Catholic Parish is Kilconly, with the alternate name of the parish as Kilconly and Kilbannon, or just Kilbannon. The National Library of Ireland shows that the Kilconly and Kilbannon registers of baptism do not begin until 1872, much too late to have recorded Patrick's baptism. Further, the National Library of Ireland does not have Kilconly and Kilbannon marriage records. Go to the National Library of Ireland link that follows to see the exact coverage of the baptism records and to also view a a map showing the location of the Kilconly Catholic Parish and surrounding Catholic parishes: https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/1066?locale=en

I then checked with the RootsIreland subscription website for the "Kilconly/Kilbennan" Catholic baptisms, and to also see if parish marriages were available. RootsIreland also has baptisms starting in 1872. Marriages at RootsIreland for the Kilconly/Kilbennan Catholic Parish commence in 1872, which means there will not be a marriage record for Patrick O'Neill's parents either.

At Google Maps I found the location of the Kilbannon Catholic Church and the ruins of a former church and graveyard, as well as the ruins of a round tower diagonally across the road. See the map at: https://tinyurl.com/2p9wfz84

This Google Street View shows the Catholic Church and the church ruins and graveyard across the road: https://tinyurl.com/2pvdvv2f

This next Google Street View shows the ruins of the round tower and the church in ruins: https://tinyurl.com/38wpyzxw

The National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland website, names the present-day Catholic Church, Saint Benan's, constructed in 1846. The civil parish of Kilbennan would have been named after him. The church would have been constructed three years before Patrick O'Neill was born in 1849, that is, if his 1849 birth year is accurate.

For more information about the church and also a slide presentation, go to the Buildings of Ireland link at: https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/30402904/sa…

The Buildings of Ireland survey places the exact location of the church in Tonlegee, by Dunmore, Galway.

Below is a description, from Buildings of Ireland, of the ruined Franciscan Catholic Church across the road, which is in the nearby townland of Pollacorragune:

POLLACORRAGUNE
Description: Part of the early ecclesiastical remains (GA029-017004-) at Kilbenan. The standing remains are those of a poorly preserved rectangular church (E-W; 23.2m, Wth 8.3m), probably of late medieval date: according to Harbison (1975, 93-4), it was built by the Franciscans. While both gables survive to their full height, most of N wall, and E end of S are destroyed. There is a round arch doorway towards W end of S wall and the base of a possible window at W end of same. The E gable contains a blocked twin-light cusped ogee-headed window; a burial vault has been built up against its outer face. A series of beam slots on the inner face of W gable indicate the former presence of a loft at this end. Three flat-headed opes are visible in this gable: a tiny window set off-centre on ground floor, a larger centrally placed rectangular window on first, and a blocked ope at the same level to S of the latter. Internally, there is a dividing wall at W end. A number of architectural fragments were also noted, including a decorated arch fragment. (O'Flanagan 1927, Vol. 1, 92-5; Killanin and Duignan 1967, 448)

The above description is derived from the published 'Archaeological Inventory of County Galway Vol. II - North Galway'. Compiled by Olive Alcock, Kathy de hÓra and Paul Gosling (Dublin: Stationery Office, 1999).
----

Next I went to the fee Ask About Ireland website and looked for Patrick's father, Patrick O'Neill, in an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. This valuation took place in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. Griiffiths Valuation shows the name of the civil parish is spelled, "Kilbennan," rather than Kilbannon.

The valuation for the civil parish of Kilbennan was completed by the year 1855. I wanted to see if a Patrick O'Neill/Neill was recorded in any of the townlands in the Kilbennan civil parish.

I found only one Patrick "Neill" recorded in the civil parish of Kilbennan, in Griffiths Valuation. He leased a house, office, and over 11 acres of land from an Immediate Lessor named William M. Day in the townland of Pollacorragune. Pollacorragune is the location of the ruined church, as described above.

The Griffiths Valuation entry likely refers to your Patrick's father. He leased a house, office, and over 11 acres of land not very far from the round tower ruins, the church ruins, and St. Benan's Curch built in 1846. The land he leased was owned by William M. Day.

Griffiths Valuation for Pollacorragune is attached to this reply. Patrick is the second person recorded down from the top of the page at Map Reference 2.

Accompanying Griffiths Valuation is a map showing where each owner or leaseholder's property was located in Pollacorragune. The map is attahced to this reply. Patrick's lease is situated at Map Reference 2 indicated by he blue arrow on the map of Pollacorragune in the upper left-hand corner. The name of the town in faint block letters can be seen toward the very bottom of the map, also attached to this reply.

A Google Map shows the location of Pollacorragune: https://tinyurl.com/bdpfczkv

Griffiths Valuation does not record anyone in a townland called Kilbannon, in the civil parish of Kilbennan. Nor could I find a reference to Kilbannon in the 1861 edition of the "General Alphabetical Index to the Townlands and Towns, Parishes and Baronies of Ireland, printed in 1861. The online version of the General Alphabetical Index is the IreAtlas Townland Data Base.

The following link will show you those townlands recorded in the civil parish of Kilbennan in the IreAtlas: https://tinyurl.com/dtbx3att

The IreAtlas does show the townland of Pollacorragune, however.

The townlands.ie website also provides a list of townlands within the civil parish of Kilbennan, but Kilbannon is not one of them, though Pollacorragune is: https://www.townlands.ie/galway/kilbennan2/

But, the Griffiths Valuation Map does show a location for "Kilbennan," near the St. Benan's Church, the church in ruins, and the round tower. The map is attached to this reply. The Catholic Church constructed in 1846 is labeled, "R.C. Chapel." The old church in ruins, and the round tower are to the left of the R.C. Chapel.

I've also attached an Ordnance Survey Map of the same location, but without the Griffiths Valuation numbers. This map is from the 1829 to 1841 time period, and is also attached to this reply. The Ordnance Survey Map is from the Tailte Eireann website.

When Patrick wrote in the 1911 census that he was from Kilbannon, he may have been referring to the civil parish of Kilbennan, or the Catholic Parish of Kilbannon, as his birthplace. For more information about civil parishes and church parishes, go to the Ireland Reaching Out link at: https://www.irelandxo.com/ireland-xo/news/what-parish

Though there is not a birth or baptism record for your Patrick O'Neill, the church where he was likely baptized is St. Benan's.

If you want to visit the church someday, can contact the parish priest and see if he can give you a tour of the church. Contact information for the church can be found at: https://www.tuamarchdiocese.org/parish-details/?parishID=40

Additionally, if you or family plan to visit the St. Benan's Church and Pollacorragune some time in the future, you can see if there is a local volunteer available to show you around the area. Ireland Reaching Out provides a Meet and Greet form, where you can ask if a local volunteer is available for the dates you plan to visit. See: https://irelandxo.com/meet-and-greet

There is no charge for a volunteer to meet you.

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

SOURCES

Ancestry.com: "Lancashire, England, Catholic Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1762-1913."
National Library of Ireland
RootsIreland
Google Maps
Google Street Views
National Inventory of Architectural Heritage/Buildings of Ireland
Ask About Ireland: Griffiths Valuation
General Alphabetical Index to the Townlands and Towns, Parishes and Baronies of Ireland
IreAtlas Townland Data Base
Townlands.ie
Tailte Éireann: Ordnance Survey Maps
Ancestry.com: 1911 England Census
Ireland Reaching Out: What is a Parish?
Tuam Arch Diocese: https://www.tuamarchdiocese.org/parish-details/?parishID=40
Ireland Reaching Out: Meet and Greet form

Thank you all so much for your help.

Sorry I haven't replied sooner but I had forgot my password and the link i got to change it wouldn't recognise my email address.

But at last I am here. I am so thankful for all your replies.

I am going to re-read them and try to digest theinformation.

Thank you once again

Linda 

Would you say that it was common for the surname to be Neill in Ireland but O'Neill in England?

I know the O' means son of but just wondered

thank you 

Hello Linda,

The O’ surname prefix actually means descendant of, or grandson of. The Mc and Mac prefix refers to son of.

I don’t believe there was a hard and fast rule with how these prefixes were used (or not used) in Ireland or England. I think it all depended on how strongly a person or the head of household identified with the Irish heritage of their surname. 

But it has been my experience, after going over hundreds of Irish baptisms and civil registration birth records (recorded in Ireland at least), that the O and Mc prefixes were not predominantly used in the 19t century. 

You can read more about the use O and Mac/Mc in Irish surnames at the following irishhistory.com, and johngrenham.com websites:

https://www.irishhistory.com/genealogy/irish-surnames/understanding-iri…

https://www.johngrenham.com/blog/2017/12/11/how-the-os-and-the-macs-cam…

Mc/Mac and O prefixes were paternal in nature. Women also have their own prefixes, Nic and Ni, signifying they are the daughter of a certain individual, probably a male ancestor.

Nic and Ni appear to be used mainly in the past 50 years among women who strongly identify with their Irish heritage. 

You can read more about the Nic and Ni prefixes in women’s names at the irishhistory.com link:
https://www.irishhistory.com/genealogy/irish-surnames/understanding-iri…

One of the most famous women to use the prefix Ni before her last name was not of the 20th or 21st century, however. She was a 16th century Irish pirate, and scourge of Queen Elizabeth I. Her name was Grace O’Mally, who also went by the Irish name of Gráinne Ní Mháille. 

I pronounce her Irish name phonetically as, Grahnya nee Wallah. There is no letter W in the Irish language, or letters J, K, Q, V, X, Y, or Z, for that matter. The blending of the letters Mh in Gráinne’s last name takes the place of the W sound.

For more information about Gráinne Ní Mháille see the Wikipedia article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O%27Malley

Also see the libraryireland.com link at: https://libraryireland.com/biography/GraceOMalley.php

Thank you for your reply.

Dave