Maughanaclea Crowleys

Hello Miriam, thank you for making time to assist me.  I started a thread last year and received terrific help from people who provided all the baptism dates for the children of Jeremiah and Kate.  Hanora,  Andrew,  Ellen,  Brigid, Kate, Kathleen, Michael,  Hannah and John.  Unfortunately that thread appears to have been permanently due to the computer issues I had. Never mind, we shall soldier on.

Kate and John both died on the 17th September 1892, however they are recorded as having the surname Crowly in the civil records section . John's death is recorded on cert number 1872175, group registration 9340884 , Bantry and the mothers birth surname states NR but when you view the image it reads Catherine Crowly. Her death cert number is 4714839, group registration  3823368, and she is recorded  as being married at the time. Does that mean I can discount the Jeremiah who died of Phthisis a few months before her? Interestingly the cause of Kate's death is listed as Phthisis which I understand to be the medical term for tuberculosis which she'd had for 9 weeks and not as having died in childbirth.

Hanora (Nora, my husbands grandmother he sadly never met) and Andrew (Andy) and Brigid (Bridie)  all emigrated to NZ in 1902. Kathleen and Micheal came later in 1909 as assisted emigrants aboard a  ship called the Corinthic. Hannah stayed  behind. Ellen, Kate and John all died at childbirth or early infancy. 

I think I have found Hannah and Andrew in the 1901 census in house 11 in Kealkil with their uncle Tim Murphy (Kate's brother) and his much younger wife Mary plus Tim and Kate's mother, Johanna. Johanna is recorded as a widow. And I think I have Hannah again in 1911, in house number 9, again with uncle Tim who is now a widower and also a nephew of  Tim's, Patrick.  Hannah's age doesn't  quite match but I'm finding that to be quite common.

As for the elusive Jeremiah, the only one I have found who may be a contender is in the 1901 census in house 19 in Kealkil recorded as a lodger but the names have been swapped around so the name reads Croley Jeremiah.

I also spent some time trawling through the 1901 census looking for the other family members that are gone by 1911, which is why I've taken a while to reply to you. I may have found Michael with his grandmother, Johanna Crowley, in house 6 in Ardglass, Miltown, Cork but there are numerous versions of Hanora, Nora, Brigid or Bridie  who are around the right age and working as servants.  They may be together at house 5 in Barrack street, Bantry but I can't say for sure because again the ages are not quite right. 

I have very good details about their lives once they came to NZ and was really just hoping to be able to visit Jeremiah's and Kate's final resting places when we visit next month. Any future help or ideas you can provide will be most welcome. Sorry this is so long:-)  thanks again 

Regards

Carol

I would like to point out that the "discrepancy" in the age of Hannah mentioned above is not in fact a discrepancy as Hannah was born in August 1891 and so was in her tenth year when the Cencus was taken on 31st March 1901.

Frank Fahy

Thank you both for your input,  it is much appreciated.  Just to clarify a couple of things, the discrepancy I was referring  to is Hannah being born in 1890,  being 10 in the 1901 census and then being only 18 in the 1911 census. Which made me wonder if the 1911 Hannah is my Hannah. She still lives with Uncle Tim Murphy in Kealkil but in a different house. I am assuming the houses wouldn't be renumbered for any reason.  I actually have access to two photos of Hannah and her husband,  Michael McCarthy,  and their witnesses on their wedding day  and another of the couple taken a few years later.

And are fathers names only recorded on marriage certificates if the father is still alive, as a rule?  Is that what you mean by Jeremiah at least not being declared as deceased Miriam? I'm just trying to get it straight in my head so I gather as much information as possible when I search and look at records. Thank you.

I've done some more research here and Jeremiah had at least two younger brothers that also emigrated to NZ.  They came much earlier,  in 1879, which is the year Jeremiah married Kate.  Andrew and Michael Crowley were already here when the next generation decided to join them, other than Hannah. I think there was a Daniel also, potentially born in 1863 and possibly an Ellen,  in 1866 but I'm not 100% sure of those two.

I have also found  2 references to a Jeremiah Crowley in Griffiths Valuations . The first has him as a tenant of William Bernard, house only, Glanycarney.  The other has him as a tenant of John Bird, house and land at Derreenkellig . Its not clear to me what year the entries relate to though. Or if they are my man.

One more question if I may? How much information is recorded on death certificates in Ireland?  Here in NZ we can choose between a certificate and a print out. The print out has lots of useful information on it such occupation, how many children are still alive at the time of their father's death, how old and what sex those children are. The reason I ask is it is looking likely to me that the Jeremiah I seek may be the one who died in 1945 in Killarney but I can't figure out how to confirm it. 

Thanks again to both of you for your interest  and patience 

Regards 

Carol 

Regarding the information of the death of Jeremiah, I would be very surprised if this is the correct Jeremiah as his place of residence is given as Kenmare and this would be in keeping with the general rule of the day where patients in County Homes were invariably from the county of residence. In the case of Jeremiah from Bantry, it would normally be that if he were to become ill, he would have been in hospital in Bantry or alternatively in the County Home in Clonakilty.

Frank Fahy

Thank you both for your valuable input.  Very clear explanations thank you Miriam.  And our hospitals work much the same way  Frank  except for emergencies  and some specialist  services. The reasons for potentially thinking that the 1945 Jeremiah Crowley is my man are that he's a widower, the date and age match the birth date of 1856 and a family member who is adamant that Jeremiah lived until he was 92 or 93. However this family member is always adamant, about everything, even when often proven wrong so I have been discounting what he has to say,  until now. 

All of Jeremiah's family has gone to NZ except for Hannah who has married Michael McCarthy from Gortnakilla. So I have assumed he may have lived with them in his later years. And when I look at a map of Ireland Kenmare appears to be quite close to the Gortnakilla area so if he went into care for example it would kind of make sense to me that  it would  be somewhere close. Tenuous I know but I just can't find the man.

As always,  thank you for your efforts on our behalf. We can't wait to get there next month. 

Regards 

Carol 

Hi again Miriam and anyone else who is reading

I have spent a few fruitless afternoons trawling through the Irishgenealogy.ie site looking at the recorded death of every Jeremiah Crowley in every part of Ireland between 1923 - when we think he's still alive at Hannah's marriage - to 1956 based on a hundred years since his birth year of 1856. No joy, and no Jeremiah either :-) 

I tried expanding the search back to 1909 when the 2 youngest children other than Hannah emigrated to NZ. Still no success. I am fairly confident he stayed in Ireland but checked our records here in NZ anyway, no luck. I've also tried billion graves, findagrave, www.from-ireland.net, and a few websites of Cork graveyards. I also looked at rootsireland but their website map seemed to suggest there is not much currently available in the way of Bantry records. Is there anywhere else you suggest that I can look? 

It looks like there's a graveyard near Kealkill but I'm unsure how recently it was in use. It seems the most logical place for him. Our host while in Bantry, Dympna Crowley, has very kindly asked two locals to guide us around the relevant townlands so hopefully with their help we may discover his final resting place. 

Counting down the days until we're there

As always, many thanks for your guidance

Regards

Carol

Greetings from New Zealand

Just a quick update. We (myself, my husband and his sister) had a fabulous visit to Ireland. We spent 3 magic days based with Dympna and Johnny Crowley at Dromcloc House, Bantry. Although we weren't able to answer the question about when Jeremiah Crowley died or where he rests, we met a relation descended from Jeremiah's in laws, the Murphys. Which meant we got to see the Maughanaclea house the family was born in - Jeremiah, his daughter Hanora (my husband's grandmother Nora) and all her siblings including Hannah, known as Cissy. (Hopefully the photo will load) Hannah stayed behind, married a Michael McCarthy who died in 1947 and they had no children. We were shown the house Cissy lived in while married and widowed and we also got to visit her in her final resting place. Paddy Murphy was able to show us exactly where this was as when he was a young man he was on the ropes lowering her to rest. We will be eternally grateful to all of the people we met for their generosity on our behalf. Everywhere we travelled in Ireland we encountered wonderfully friendly people who happily shared their time and knowledge. Special thanks goes to this website for the helpful advice and information given and also to the Crowleys of Dromcloc House who went above and beyond making enquiries and connections on our behalf.

Go raibh maith agat

Carol

Hello Carol, how lovely to find this thread! I am the Great, Grandaughter of Michael Crowley. I was born in New Zealand, now living in Australia. Grand-daughter of Michael and Myra. It was fantastic to see your photo of the original home in Ireland. I will show my dad, John. I was a little girl when my great grandfather passed.He was in his 90's. I remember he was a tall man who was quite jolly, and had a beautiful Irish accent. 

Did you happen to find out whether Kate died in childbirth or from TB? I remember reading in our family booklet she died in childbirth and felt so horrified for Jeremiah left without a wife and such a large family without a mother.
 

Did your husband know my Great Grandfather? 

Warm regards, Lisa

Hi there Lisa

Tried reaching out to you via MyHeritage. Yes Steve remembers Mick Crowley and your grandparents Michael and Myra came to our wedding   :-)

I suspect Kate died in childbirth due to being weak from TB and yes it was a sobering moment for me too when I realised the date of her death was the same as baby John's.

Our email address is scag@primowireless.co.nz

Happy to share if you would like to see more photos of our visit to Kealkil and Maughanaclea

It was the highlight of the entire trip to have stood in the actual house where Steve's maternal grandmother was born. We are eternally grateful to the Crowleys of Dromcloc House in Bantry for finding a relative from Kates side of the family and making that happen for us,

Cheers 
Carol