McGreece / M'Griece / Magreese family; Kinine, Tyrone

Malcolm,

Griffiths Valuation for 1860 lists Hugh McGreese farming on plot 5 in Kinine. That was 13 acre farm. It remains in that name in the Valuation revision records till 1888 when it changes to Patrick. Then in 1899 there is an illegible change before it goes to McCullion in 1906.

This looks to be Patrick in the 1901 census, living with his niece:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Moorefield/Kinine/1740977/

No McGreese or Teague in Kinine in the 1911 census.

This looks to be Ellen Garvey and her husband Thomas in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Fermanagh/Magheraculmoney/Sheemuldoon/1354822/

Ellen was previously married to Francis Teague who died 7.1.1888 aged 48. Their 2 children Owen and Hugh were born 30.4.1879 & 28.11.1882 respectively. Their daughter Rose Ann Tague (sic) was born 8.12.1880. Their birth certificates give her previous name as McGinnis/McGuinness. Francis and Ellen were married on 5.6.1877. She was a spinster, resided in Kinine and her father was Hugh McGuinis, farmer. I consider that McGreece and McGuinis/McGuinness etc are all variations of the same name. So that would confirm Patrick, whose death Ellen reported in 1902, was her brother and the son of Hugh who died in 1887.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1877/11134/8076966.pdf

I would say that Rose McGreece who died in 1898, aged 40, was a sister to Patrick & Ellen & Hugh junior. Hugh Teague the informant must have been Ellen’s son.

I note that you have Mary McGreece as dying in 1868. However when Hugh died in 1887 he is recorded as still married. Did he remarry? (I don’t see a marriage if he did).

Kilskeery RC records start in 1840. Have you searched them for the family? That should confirm some of the relationships and give you Hugh’s wife’s maiden name.

Thank You for your assistance, much appreciated Elwyn

Have been playing with the McGreece / Teague relationships for sometime;  find the McGreece from McGuiness step to be a bit too big but who knows with some of the handwriting

we see in early records. The two names do not sound very similiar.      Have abandoned countless searches for lack of clarity of the handwriting; McGreece / McGrace search turns out to be McGrew, McGuire, McGrue etc etc.

In the same vein have found the Kilskerry RC records near impossible to decipher with any confidence.

The death record of Mary McGreece had changes made to the age at death figure so here again little confidence to use the record.

Malcolm

Malcolm,

I understand your reluctance to see McGinnis and McGreece as the same name. However they are pronounced much the same here and if you weren’t especially  literate, the spelling and pronunciation fits fine.

The conundrum you face, if you don’t think it’s the same name family, is if Ellen was the deceased Patrick’s sister (as per his death certificate), and Rose Ann Teague, was her daughter and his niece (as per 1880 birth certificate and the 1901 census), how do you think they are related if not brother & sister? Can you suggest an alternative explanation? I can’t. (Plus from her marriage certificate, Ellen’s father was named Hugh which fits with the information you gave).

I note your doubt about the ages. In general, people in Ireland in the 1800s didn’t celebrate birthdays, didn’t have birth certificates or passports (though they might sometimes have had a baptismal cert) and often had little accurate idea of their ages. Most ages on official documents were just a guess.

Alexander Irvine was born in 1863 in Antrim town and became a Minister living in the US. This extract from his book “The Chimney Corner revisited” perhaps explains why people often had to guess their ages:

“My mother kept a mental record of the twelve births. None of us ever knew, or cared to know, when we were born. When I heard of anybody in the more fortunate class celebrating a birthday I considered it a foolish imitation of the Queen’s birthday, which rankled in our little minds with 25th December or 12th July. In manhood there were times when I had to prove I was born somewhere, somewhen, and then it was that I discovered that I also had a birthday. The clerk of the parish informed me.”

I have attached a letter which I found in parish records in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast from someone in Pettigoe, Co. Donegal in 1908 writing to his Minister, asking for proof of age (ie a baptismal certificate). All he knew was that he was between “70 and 78 years of age.” He clearly had only the vaguest idea of his age and couldn’t narrow it down to within 9 years. (The reason for the letter was that the old age pension was being introduced in 1909 for people aged 70 and over. Documentary proof of age was required. Thus, probably for the first time in his life, establishing his age accurately became relevant to him).