Hi all, I have been stuck with a brick wall on my mother's female line. My 4th great grandmother was Mary Fogarty born 1818 Castlecomer who married Michael Bergin. Her mother Ellen Walsh born 1791, died 1878 married Patrick Fogarty. Her father was James Walsh. Various unofficial sources (mostly profiles on Ancestry and My heritage etc) show Ellen's mother as Mary Anne Walsh who married William Warner Westenra Baron Rossmore of Monaghan in 1791. Mary Anne was a daughter of Charles Walsh and Sarah Morrison Simpson.
Below is a couple of references with regard to Warner and Mary Anne (Marianne).
He m. firstly, 3 Oct. 1791, Marianne, 2d da. 0f Charles WALSH, of Walsh Park, co, Tipperary, by Sarah, da. of (-) SIMPSON. She d. 12 Aug. 1807, at Derry Keale, King's county. (Wikipedia)
At Derry-Keale, King's Country, Ireland, Marianne Baronets Roffmore. Her Ladyship was the fecond daughter of Charles Walfh, efq. of Walfh park, co. Tipperary; and was married, Oct. 3, 1791, to Warner-William LOrd Roffmore, by whom fhe has left iffue five fons and one daughter. (The Gentleman's Magazine, and Historical Chronicle, Volume 77, Part 2 page 423).
Mary Anne's wedding was only a couple of months after the birth of Ellen. Ellen is shown as Ellen Walsh. There is very little I have found about Mary Anne. Books and articles mention her children to Warner William but no mention of Ellen. The closeness of birth and marriage worries me.
I did find 2 references to an Ellen Walsh birth:
Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915; Name: Ellen Walsh; Baptism Age: 0; Event Type: Baptism; Birth Date: 1791; Baptism Date: 4 Aug 1791; Baptism Place: Cork, St Mary's, Cork city, Ireland; Diocese: Cork and Ross; Father: James Walsh; Mother: Anne Keeffe
St. Patrick's, Cork city Diocese of Cork and Ross, County of Cork page 67 4 August 1791 Ellen Walsh to James Walsh and Anne Keeffe.
Mother is recorded as Anne Keeffe. It looks like Anne Keeffe is the likely mother of Ellen.
I am stumped in knowing how I prove or disprove the connection between Mary Anne and Warner though there are difficulties as shown above. Thanks for any help,
Cheers, Rich
rmoss7
Monday 14th Mar 2022, 02:44AMMessage Board Replies
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This is just an observation. Lord Rossmore's family would have been well off. But I looked at the records (RootsIreland) for children of Mary Walsh and Patrick Fogarty, and Patrick's job was laborer. That doesn't add up. So I would doubt your Ellen's mother married Lord Rossmore.
Patricia
Monday 14th Mar 2022, 06:39PM -
Rich,
According to Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Westenra,_2nd_Baron_Rossmore), Lord Rossmore and Mary Ann Walsh had three sons. No daughters. So, if correct, they could not be your Ellen's parents.
Patricia
Monday 14th Mar 2022, 06:57PM -
Thanks Patricia. My only way out of the dilemna and it was a long shot, was that Ellen's father James Walsh died when Mary Anne was pregnant and Warner knew her and married her after her baby was born. There again, perhaps Ellen having a father called Walsh and Mary Anne also Walsh, it adds another layer of disbelief, not impossible but unlikely. Perhaps Warner had an affair with Mary Anne, got her pregnant and waited to marry her so that she could retain the Walsh surname to hide a scandal. No mention of Ellen would be mentioned in any media/records. All these thought have been through my mind but the simplist answer is probably that Mary Anne is not the mother of Ellen. I kind of like these types of trails and trying to prove or disprove, keeps the mind active, as frustrating as it has been.
Perhaps Anne Keeffe is her mother after all. Would love someone to add to this as it would be great to have the truth. I am a WikiTreer so want the truth recorded.
Cheers, Rich
rmoss7
Monday 14th Mar 2022, 10:45PM