Patrick Gorman 1793-1833 (Dublin-Birmingham)

Do you know what denomination your Gorman family were ?

The records for the Catholic parish of St. Andrew in Dublin city go back to the 1740s and are available as images on the NLI website. There can be gaps and faded pages so might be worth a closer browse though... I had a quick look at the entries for January and early February 1793, and they appear to be legible, but no sign that I could see of any Gorman baptisms.

Military records often gave the civil parish as place of birth, regardless of the actual denomination - so if your Gormans were Catholic and lived in the western part of St. Andrews civil parish they could have lived in an area covered by S.S. Michael & John's RC parish.

Most of the early records for the Church of Ireland parish of St. Andrew Dublin city were lost, although there are some partial burnt records for the parish held by the RCB LIbrary.

I dont have Fold3 access to view images but can see a partial transcript for what seems to be your Patrick with his place of birth given as "St Annis Dublin" - born abt 1792, enlisted ag 18 discharged age 22 in the Fourth Regt Of Hussars.

There's a previous topic on this Patrick which specifically mentions Church of Ireland and includes some details of his marriage - unfortunately if this is the denomination, it's very likely that his baptism record is among the lost records for this parish - see St Andrews Parish( Church of Ireland ) Dublin

Hi 'Shanew 147' Firstly , thanks for taking the time to read and reply to my post. In answer to your query; i am not sure of his denomination. His enlistment record,which i have in full, refers to what i read as St Andrews but on looking closely could be read as St Annis. That does not help, i know. I have come across another record for a Patrick baptised 22 Mar 1795 to Cornelius and unrecorded mother on the Roots Ireland site,which definitely states Roman Catholic. This has a location of St Pauls, Arran Quay. I don't know Dublin,could this make sense at the time of enlistment,with parish changes/mergers etc? I can email copies if required to help

regards and thanks again

St. Paul's parish is located in the west of Dublin North city, north of the river Liffey whereas St. Andrew's is in the south east of the city and south of the river Liffey so not adjacent - with several parishes in between. In both cases there are Catholic and Church of Ireland parishes with these names. Just to complicate thing a little further there is also a civil and Church of Ireland parish of St. Anne's (St Annis. ?), which is located adjacent to St. Andrews civil parish.

Have you ruled out the baptism in St. Andrew's RC of Pat Gorman 4th May 1795 with parents Peter and Suzanne (no maiden surname given) ? .. maybe your Patrick was a little under age to join the army and pushed his year of birth back when joining ...

Pity that his military record does not mention denomination, they sometime include this detail... I presume the Manchester Cathedral mentioned is Church of England ?
Have you found baptisms of his children - what denomination were these ?

If that 1895 baptism is not your Patrick then my feeling is that either your Patrick was Church of Ireland and therefore baptism record lost, or baptism was Catholic and recorded on a page now missing or damaged, or the information he gave when enlisting was inaccurate, with regard to either his age or place of birth, or both. Discounting some or all of the enlistment details creates a problem as there's no additional clues to work with at this point... so any records found after this become 'possible' matches with no straightforward way to prove or rule out. Getting back this far (i.e. Ireland before 1800) is doing very well as records do not give much detail and many people struggle to get back past the 1830s.

Hi Shanew, thanks for your latest input. Manchester Cathedral is,and presumably was, an Anglican Church. Baptisms of descending generations have all been Anglican/C.O.E. So i would presume Patrick was C.O.I.

I have'nt come across the baptism you mentioned and have suspected for some time that Patrick may have lied about his age. From his enlistment papers he is described as being about 5'10" so couls well have got away with that. What record is that in?

best regards

Hi Shanew, i've been in touch with a Gorman 'cousin' in Canada who is also researching the Family. He has come across a baptism of a Patrick with parents Cornelius and Suzanne. Cornelius was baptised in 1763 at St Michan's Anglican Church in Church St,Dublin City. I'm thinking this looks like a good fit, what do you think?

best regards

Does the information regarding this additional baptism include details and a source - which parish & denomination ?

Working back further without good evidence can mean you end up with a tree that is not accurate - many parishes do not have records for this timeframe so finding a record does not necessarily mean it's the correct person.

I'd say that 1795 baptism is the best match - it's the parish he gave on his military records and very close to the year.

p.s. St. Anne's civil parish would also have been in St. Andrew RC parish

Hi Shanew, the baptism he has found is 22 Mar 1795 at St Paul's ,Arran Quay. To Cornelius and Anne.( not Suzanne,my fault sorry) Cornelius was born in Dublin 1763 and baptised at St Michan's, which is listed as an Anglican church on google, to parents Lawrence and Margaret (nee McCardel ) info from Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915. This combination also has another son  of Cornelius,James,.When Patrick's son William married,in 1855 ,James was the name given as father on the birth cerificate. I have heard that it is not unusual for brothers to stand in at weddings for deceased parents of the bride or groom.

I think this looks promising, what do you think?

Hi I live in Canada ( Nova Scotia ) and i have recently been doing my family tree, patrick gorman is my GGGG grandfather and he came to Nova Scotia and died here, his head stone is in the cemetery here as I have visited it
Looking for information on his parents, he is from wexford ireland, and born in 1700s as well