The Quaites from Belfast (or was it Clydeside, Scotland)

Gwenda,

The big shipbuilding firms in Britain and Ireland moved skilled staff around according to their needs. Harland & Wolff, for example had yards in Belfast, Glasgow, Liverpool & Southampton and if they were short in one yard they would transfer men from others. If you look at the 1911 census for Belfast you will find lots of shipyard workers born in England & Scotland (they would have been busy finishing the Titanic. She was launched on 31st May 1911), and a similar search in say Glasgow or Liverpool will find loads born in Ireland. Here’s an example of one such Scottish/Irish born family in the 1911 Irish census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn/Gainsb…

I would not be at all surprised to find that the various spellings all refer to the same surname. That was very common. The idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname or a place name in Ireland is very much a recent phenomenon designed to meet the needs of modern officialdom. Before that there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person recording the information. You will often see the spelling change as the records go back. This rarely indicates a deliberate decision to alter the name, nor even a mistake. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact and consistent spelling simply wasn’t something they bothered about.

MacLysaght’s “The Surnames of Ireland” says that Quaid & McQuaid (meaning son of Wat) was a well known name in Co Monaghan and adjacent areas.

Almost all the Quaites in the 1911 census are Presbyterian. That often indicates that the name originated in Scotland, so if you were able to get back far enough you might find the family came to Ireland from Scotland in the 1600s.

Thanks Elwyn

The example you sent is from my "Quaite" family. At least three of the family members on that census emigrated to the US. I have four " Quaite/Quaid" men who are very closely related, (born in the early 1800's), possibly even brothers. I wonder if I will ever be able to prove their relationship. I have seen that there were very many Presbyterian churches in Belfast. I imagine that they probably lived close to the docks. Is there any way I can identify which churches are closest to the docks? Maybe when this virus stops dominating our lives I may get to Ireland to do some research.

Gwenda

Hi

I just found out that James Quaite and his wife Sarah Hill were married in Mt Pottinger Church. Would I be able to access records from this church. Possibly the children's baptisms would be recorded. 

Gwenda

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, after which she’d normally attend her husband’s. So it doesn’t follow that children will be baptised in the church where the parents married (unless of course both attended the same church).

Mountpottinger only opened in 1862 so there will be no baptisms before that.  I assume this is Sarah in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Victoria/Chelsea_Street/1217379/

(Note that she was born in Liverpool. So presumably James or his father was working there at some point, as I mentioned might be the case).

Same family in 1911. The census tells us James was born in Scotland c 1867, so you would need to search there for his birth certificate, not Belfast.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Duncairn/Mountcollyer_Road/141903/

The most likely birth looks to be James Quate in Govan (a big ship building area on the Clyde) in 1865. GROS ref 646/1 561. His birth certificate should record where and when his parents married. (You can view it on Scotlandspeople). You can also check the censuses to see where the parents were from.  If they are not in the Scottish censuses on Scotlandspeople, try the English ones. (They are on Ancestry). Post the details here and I'll see if I can take the research back a generation.

With regard to which Presbyterian churches were in Belfast in the 1800s, the city expanded dramatically throughout the 1800s. Many additional churches opened all through that century. At the beginning of the 1800s there were about 10.  By 1900 there were about 50 Presbyterian churches in the city. This link explains what records exist, parish by parish (Belfast is treated as being one parish and they are all together). P for Presbyterian in the indexes. In addition to mainstream Presbyterian, there were also Non Subscribing Presbyterians (NSP) and Reformed Presbyterians (RP), so check them too:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

Some records were lost due to German bombing of Belfast in WW2, so not every church has a complete set now.

This looks to be James Quaite/Quite’s parents marriage in Belfast in 1861:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1861/09604/5482843.pdf

Both were born around 1840. The marriage was Church of Ireland so that suggests Margaret was of that denomination.  Quite a lot of St Anne’s records are on-line on the rootsireland site. Not very many Presbyterian records are on-line and you definitely need to go to PRONI to search them.

Something to bear in mind is that James & Margaret and their parents may not have been born in Belfast.  As I mentioned previously people poured into the city from the surrounding counties looking for work in the shipyards, linen mills and related industries. The population of Belfast in 1800 was 20,000. By 1901 it was 349,000. That’s a lot of incomers. Without a specific place of birth beyond "Ireland", it would be risky to assume they were Belfast born.

Thank you for your help. I have had a good look at the previous generation and found all the births of the children, again a mixture of Belfast and Clydeside.  Sarah's father, William Hill, was a seaman so probably travelling between Ireland and Liverpool. William Hill was from Ireland and several of his children were born in Ireland, it was just Sarah and one sister were born in Liverpool. I think Ireland was probably the home of the Hill family and the father was working in Liverpool. So many ancestors were involved in maritime occupations. 

I think I need to go back another generation to find the link with my tree. As this would be about 1790's I don't think there's much chance of this, especially in Ireland.

Thanks again

Gwenda

Hi Gwenda.  Just stumbled on this site, and your queries.   I have the James & Sarah tree in our Quaite line, and would be happy to exchange info with you.    I have over the years had 4 separate Quaite groups I was researching, trying to connect them all, and have had great success, with just a few uncertain bits connects James & Sarah to ours (my husband is a Quaite).    So I have 'our' group from Ballymena area, what I refer to as the Belfast group (James & Sarah), the Island Magee group, and the Australian group.          Yes, I too found researching James & Sarah confusing at first, as they went back and forth from Scotland to Ireland, and had children born in both countries!!    

Please let me know if I can help you with anything.          My biggest stumbling block has been trying to prove who my husbands great grandfather James's parents were.  Another James but can't confirm his wife or marriage.           And yes, they were recorded as Queate, then Quaite, and at other times Quate, but finally with a lot of digging and cross-checking, all the same family.  Sometimes in a Census you find several spellings of the last name all within the same household!

 Lots of missing records in certain years with the Ireland files, the big fire, etc, so frustrating, but with a lot of help with cousins from all corners, I am close!!   

Pat Q

Hello Pat Q

It was a lovely surprise getting your reply. I have just completed searching three Quaite lines. I know that the James and Sarah line is connected to the Andrew Quaid line in Canada. I have my DNA on Ancestry and there are 2 strong shared matches with my Samuel Quete, your James Quaite and Andrew Rees Quaid. There is another line which ends with a Robert Quaite in Antrim, from the same generation, but the DNA match is much weaker. This line goes to Massachusettes. 

My email address is gwenda.parfitt@btinternet.com  I would love to see your tree. I have absolutely nothing about my direct ancestor, Samuel Quete except his name and that his daughter Elizabeth was born in Antrim about 1840. There is mention of a Margaret Singleton on an 1891 census in Liverpool as being Elizabeth's mother. She was born in abt 1818 in Arran, Scotland so I think that maybe Samuel was involved in the journeying between Scotland and Ireland. Even more questions there, why Singleton as there is no evidence of a marriage to indicate change of name.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes

Gwenda