Robinson/Robertson late 1700s - early 1800s

Mary Ann Robinson/Robertson is Episc

William Robinson/Robertson is Prot.

Jane Fisher is Presby

I'm also trying to conform that William is Mary Ann's brother as all 3 arrived in Australia on the Percy 28 Aug 1841 on the Percy. Mary Ann Robinson (17) arrived in the care of her brother but her parents are William Robinson and Jane Fisher. William Robertson (24) and Jane Fisher arrived on the Percy 28 Aug 1841 but no reference to Mary Ann his sister.

He is probably her brother and the brother and his wife were probably written as Mary Ann's parents but I'm trying to find other proof (besides Mary Ann's death in NSW says her father is John, the same as William Robertson with wife Jane Fisher.

sorry typos etc. above, I didn't edit properly.

Statutory birth, death and marriage registration (in some jurisdictions called Vital Records) only started in Ireland in 1864, save for non RC marriages which were recorded from 1845 onwards. So you probably won’t find statutory birth, death or marriage certificates in Ireland for this family. For earlier years you usually need to rely on church records, where they exist.  Ideally you need to know the precise denomination and have some idea of where the person was born in order to search the correct records. Not all churches have records for that period and not all are on-line. 

RC records are mostly on-line on the nli site:   

https://www.nli.ie/en/family-history-introduction.aspx

For other denominations, the churches usually hold the originals but there are also copies in PRONI, the public record office, in Belfast. A personal visit is required to access them. Access to the records there is free. This link explains what records exist, parish by parish:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/publications/proni-guide-church-records

If you are unable to go yourself, you could employ a researcher. Researchers in the PRONI area: http://sgni.net

Lurgybrack is in the parish of Leck.  It’s early Church of Ireland (Episcopalian) records were lost in the 1922 fire and it has none for the period you need. It doesn’t have a Presbyterian church so I’d be looking at adjacent parishes ie Aghanunshin, Conwal, Convoy, Raphoe & Raymoghy.

Many churches don’t have records for the late 1700s/early 1800s so it may be hard to find some of this information. The marriage around 1841 might be in the records though.

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so a marriage and the subsequent baptism of children are not necessarily in the same church.

Hi and thanks,

You will need to log into familysearch to see these

Mary Ann Robinson (I suspect that her parents listed are actually her brother and his wife who I believe are on the same ship as Robertson as her death in NSW says her father is John, the same as William Robertson not William as her Immigration paperwork says plus as you can see this William Robertson's wife is Jane Fisher) is Epesc

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DW53-9MF?fbclid=IwAR3Z…

William Robertson is Prot. and Jane Fisher (hiw wife) is Presby

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DW53-S7K?fbclid=IwAR0q…

I am in Australia so no I can't go and see them myself. 

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Someone has said that Mary Ann Robinson, William Roberson and Jane Fisher are all prodestant and the Baptisms were recorded by Wm Horatio Slack (Stack) with no supporting evidence or even dates, place and any other info is available.

I classify such things as possible leads that require addition research to either confirm or deny (often incorrect info gets added to Family trees eg. in my own Family tree there are people who have my Grandmother born in Sydney NSW when she was born in Hobart Tasmania - her marriage states this) and undertake my own research.

Kind Regards,

Wayne

oops sorry error above "someone says they are all Presby not Prot" yet their Immigration records have Epics for Mary, Prot for William and Presby for Jane.

Here’s a reference to a Rev William Stack. If it’s the right man he was Church of England/Ireland.

https://campbelltown-library.blogspot.com/2018/12/reverend-canon-willia…

Hi and thanks,

I will look into it.

The person who provided me with info said "Person certifying registry of baptism: Wm Horatio SLACK" and this was for Episc, Prot and Presby (which to me doesn't add up that one priest would do 3 different religions).

If Church of Ireland.

The 1831 census for Londonderry, I believe only has one family with John as the head and it is John Robertson (not Robinson).

Residents of a house 7 in Ballymully (Desertlyn, Loughinshollin, Londonderry)

There are 5 people in the house

2 males and 3 females

I am told that Desertlyn Church of Ireland records start in 1797. (Copy in PRONI).

Plus the 1901 Census has a Robinson family living in Ballymully

William Robertson and His wife Jane Fisher who went to Australia (William could Read and Write his wife and sister Mary could only read).

Jane Fisher's place of origin may be Lurganbrack which is a townland on the Fanad peninsula in Co Donegal. Nearest Presbyterian church is probably Fannet. Their records apparently start from 1827. (There’s a copy in PRONI.)

I don't have access to PRONI.

does anyone know what Church Reverend William Horatio Stack was with in the early to mid 1800s (he died 13 April 1863 and lived Blateagh Glebe in the County of Londonderry) http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014885/005014…;

Balteagh Glebe is in the parish of Balteagh. (Glebe means land owned by the Church of Ireland/England usually for the Minister to help support himself). So he will have been Church of Ireland Rector or Vicar of Balteagh parish. The Glebe and the parish church are both on the modern Drumsurn Rd about a mile outside Limavady. The church is called St Canice’s. 

William H. Stack is listed in Griffiths Valuation of 1858 as occupying the land in Balteagh Glebe. 

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…

Thanks, So I need to look for Church of Ireland records at that Church for the time if they exist, to see if he did the baptism's for Mary, William and Jane as someone has told me that he did all 3 (with no proof plus Jane was from a different county)

.

Sadly, Balteagh Church of Ireland’s early records were destroyed in the 1922 fire and they have no baptisms before 1896.

Thanks,

yes I have found that out when looking for the records, So I have no idea how someone has claimed online that Mary Robinson, William Robertson and Jane Fisher were baptised by Reverend Horatio Stack  when Jane wasn't from Derry. To me it sounds like guesswork. 

It’s possible that the childrens baptismal certificates may have survived (in the family’s possession) or that say a family bible has the details recorded in it, but otherwise it’s hard to see how they would have that information when the records have been destroyed.  With Anglicans you normally baptise in the church in the parish where you live, though occasionally you find the births were at the mother’s home before she married (ie with her own mother) and then they might be baptised in that parish instead.  But in general if someone lived in Lurgybrack (parish of Clondavaddog), you would expect the baptisms to be there. Clondavaddog’s baptisms do exist and start in 1794. Copy held in PRONI.  But it’s unlikely batisms in Clondavaddog were conducted by Rev Stack as he wasn’t in charge there.

You could contact the owner of the tree(s) that have this information to see their source, but it’s certainly true that there are a lot of trees with errors.

Yes, I agree, usually the child is baptised in their Native Place and I couldn't see Rev William Horatio Stack doing 2 x baptisms in Derry and 1 x baptism in Donegal counties at the time that these 3 people were born.

It was info passed on, I haven't seen the tree. 

It also says Mary Ann Robinson parents not recorded (the ship records have the names of her brother and his wife Jane as her parents but her death says the same father name as William) plus the Revered's Surname as Slack not Stack.

I tend to query things like this that don't seem to add up.

"The ship Percy arrived in Sydney on 28 August 1841.

Mary Ann ROBINSON
Native Place: Londonderry
Age: 17
Calling: House Servant
Religion: Episcopalian on one record, Protestant on another
Under the protection of brother William ROBINSON and wife
Parents not named
Person certifying registry of baptism: Wm Horatio SLACK

William is recorded as ROBERTSON.

William ROBERTSON
Native Place: Londonderry
Age: 24
Calling: Blacksmith
Religion: Protestant
Parents: John (occupation: Cooper) and Margaret
Person certifying registry of baptism: Wm Horatio SLACK

Jane ROBERTSON
Native Place: Lurga brack (?), Donegal
Age: 26
Calling: House Servant
Religion: Presbyterian
Parents: James FISHER (occupation: Farmer or Farrier) and Anne (?)
Person certifying registry of baptism: Wm Horatio SLACK"

Kind Regards,

Wayne

Episcopalian is a protestant denomination so I don’t see any conflict there.  Presbyterian is also Protestant. You are correct that an Episcopalian Minister could not have conducted a Presbyterian baptism. But of course some of the family might have changed denomination at some point, especially through marriage. 

If the records exist, they are unlikely to be on-line so unless you get someone to search the records in PRONI you probably won’t resolve where and when they were baptised.

Robertson & Robinson are interchangeable names in Ireland so you see families using both. (Kirkpatrick & Kilpatrick, Falconer & Faulkner are likewise interchangeable. There are numerous other examples).

The Minister’s correct name was Stack but Slack is an understandable mistranscription. He died in 1863. Here’s his probate abstract:

Letters of Administration of the personal estate of the Reverend William Horatio Stack late of Balteagh Glebe in the County of Londonderry Clerk a Bachelor deceased who died 13 April 1863 at same place were granted at Londonderry to the Reverend Thomas Stack of Morehampton-terrace Donnybrook-road in the County of Dublin Clerk and Fellow of Trinity College the Brother of said deceased.

Hi and thanks for the help Elwyn, In the previous comment, I pointed that I tend to query things like this that don't appear to add up (to show what I had been working from), yes the name is Stack and I had provided the link to his probate extract above (so name sorted), the other discrepency was he is supposed to have performed baptisms in two different counties about the same timeframe (so not all in the same county). So far I haven't seen any proof that Reverend William Horatio Stack did perform all 3 plus if at Balteagh Church of Ireland than all records were destroyed in the fire in 1922 (so unless Reverend William Horatio Stack did baptisms at other Churches, no church records of him performing them exist).

This is what I mean by discrepencies that do not appear to be adding up.

Yes I think the only way I might find these two families (Robinson/Robertson and Fisher) baptisms and the marriage for William Robinson/Robertson to Jane Fisher (probably in Donegal) is if someone was to have a look at PRONI for them :( 

Ok Update:

According to rootsireland (info was passed onto me)

Willian Robinson married Jane Fisher

First Presbyterian Church, Donegal

29 April 1840

Witnesses: Samuel and Jane Fisher

As I mentioned previously, tradition was to marry in the bride's church, so that may be where you will find Jane's baptism if the records go back that far. If the church records contain her townland that may help find out a bit more about her. If she had any sisters, they prpbably married in the same church. If any of those were after April 1845 the certificates should be on the irishgenealogy site and should give you her father's name and occupation. Prior to April 1845 many marriages only contain the couples names, the date and the 2 witnesses. Sometimes there's more but often not.

Oops error above (can I edit posts here?). I'm getting confused working between two counties atm.

I accidentally put the Church county down wrong for the marriage. The person says First Derry Prebyterian (not Donegal). So looks like married in his NP and not her NP. This person says Jane Fisher’s parents address would be Lurgybrack, which is a townland in County Donegal, outside the town of Letterkenny. Apparently Jane's address is down as Ferry Quay Street which is now known as Ferrquay Street (so not sure which county atm.) and William’s is just given as Derry. 

Ok looks like Ferrquay Street is in Derry because when I google the name in Donegal, Derry shows up in the search (so looks like Jane Fisher lived in Derry when married).

ok it looks like Samuel and Jane who were witnesses at William Robertson/Robinson and Jane Fisher's marriage are her brother and his wife who emmigrated to NSW Australia on the "Helen" 21 July 1841 (William Robinson/Robertson and Jane Fisher arrived 28 Aug 1841).

Jane Fisher

born: about 1815 Lurgybrack Donegal

Residence: Londonderry (at time of marriage)

Parents: James Fisher and Ann

Religion: Presby

Samuel Fisher

born: about 1813

Parents: James Fisher and Ann Bradley (both deceased)

Religion Presby

Residence: Londonderry

Jane McBride (wife of Samuel)

born: about 1815

Native Place: Allsaints Donegal

Parents: John McBride and Sarah Hood

Jane McBride's sister Eliza McBride aged 17yo and unmarried arrived in Australia with Samuel Fisher and Jane McBride on the "Helen" 21 July 1841.

The address in Londonderry appears in the 1831 census as Ferry Key St. Today it’s Ferry Quay St. No Robinson or Fisher families in the street in the 1831 census.

Ferry Quay St is a business area within the city walls. In the 1840s it would also have been a residential area. Some pictures here:

https://uk.images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrJS5irQM5gEWoAMy1LBQx.;_ylu=Y29sbwNpcjIEcG9zAzEEdnRpZANDMjAwNV8xBHNlYwNzYw--?p=Ferry+Quay+St%2C+Londonderry&fr=yfp-t

Some of Ferry Quay St has been redeveloped for a big modern shopping centre (the Richmond Centre) but a lot is buildings put up in the 1800s or earlier.

Lurgybrack is a small townland of 81 acres. In both the tithe applotment records c 1830 and Griffiths Valuation (1858) there’s just 1 household listed. A farm tenanted by Francis Gallagher. No other tenants. If that’s where Jane Fisher was born then she may have been baptised in Letterkenny (though there were other churches in the area as I mentioned previously). Letterkenny 1st & Letterkenny 2nd Presbyterian churches both have records starting in 1821. Some of the events you have enquired about are before that, and if so, you are unlikely to find any record of them if they were in either of those churches. Copi9es of the records are in PRONI. Not sure if they are on-line. (Many Presbyterian records are not on-line). I know you are in Australia and cannot go yourself, but in that situation you may need a researcher to go to PRONI for you. (I gave a link to a site that lists some previously).

It may be that Jane was born in Lurgybrack but it appears to me that by the time she married, she had moved to Londonderry, based both on the church and her address. Whether her whole family had also moved there, I can’t say. I have had a look for the families in a couple of street directories but without success. 

The only John Robinson in Londonderry in the 1831 census lived in the Diamond (Ferry Quay St, leads into the Diamond, so that’s very close to where Jane was living in 1840). His household consisted of 2 males and 1 female all Presbyterian, plus a Church of Ireland female servant.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/_/_/Templemore/Diamond…

Thanks,

Ok as that like it could be them as Jane Fisher (parents James Fisher and Anne) who arrived in Australia with her husband William Robinson/Robertson was a servant.

I have William Robinson m Jane Fisher 29 Apr 1840 at First Derry Presbterian. 

Samuel Fisher (parents James Fisher and Ann Bradley both dead) and  Jane McBride married 28 Jan 1840 at St Columbs (Church of Ireland in Derry).

Samuel Fisher and his wife Jane McBride (plus looks like her sister Eliza McBride) arrived in Australia 1 month before William Robertson (Robinson) and his wife Jane Fisher (with William's sister Mary Ann).

Kind Regards,

Wayne 

oops Samuel Fisher 21 July 1841 on his arrival in Australia on the "Helen" says both his parents are dead.

Someone pointed out that in the same 1831 census there is a Mrs Robinson (Fish Market inside) in Templemore. House 2. 2 males, 2 females and 2 female servants (3 EC, 1 PR, 2 RC).

This was pointed out because when William Robertson/Robinson arrived in Australia at 24 yo as a Blacksmith (his father John has Cooper as his occupation) his religion says Prot and his sister Mary Ann Robinson says she is Episc.

At the time of this census William would have been about 14 yo and Mary Ann would have been about 7yo.