Smith

Anthony,

Birth registration didn’t start in Ireland till 1864. Prior to that you need to rely on church records. Not all churches have records and those that do are not all on-line. Knowing the person’s denomination can also help narrow the search.

Did James Smith marry in Scotland? If so, his marriage certificate should confirm his parents names. More importantly it should also say whether they were alive or dead at that date. (It’ll say “dcd” if they were dead).  Scottish officials were pretty meticulous about this.  It should also record his father’s occupation.  That may help trace the family in Ireland.

You should also check every census that James is in in Scotland for place of birth. Though usually it just says Ireland, sometimes you get a precise location, especially in the 1911 census.

Hi Elwyn

Thank you again.

I believe that he was a protestant.

His father was Samuel and his mother Elizabeth Glass. I was unable to find a marriage cert in Scotland for James and my great grandmother x 3 Jane Newton. I have no idea if they officially married.

I actually think he was married before to a Jane Crawford, not sure if this happened in Ireland as I couldn't find a Scottish record.

The census states that he was from Antrim, but it doesn't confirm where in Antrim.

I searched Irish records for James Smyth marriages to Crawford or Newton up to 1871 but did not find one. (I also looked on Scotlandspeople, and like you don’t see them there either).

Anthony,

Did James have any children born in Scotland? If he did, then provided it was 1861 onwards, their birth certificates should normally record where and when the parents married.

Hi Elwyn

I checked the birth entries for the children and it appears that they were all born out of wedlock. The youngest child was born in 1891. On James's death cert it says he was married to Jane Crawford first and then Jane Newton.

They must have married sometime between 1891 and 1919 when he died. I also cant find a birth or death entry for Jane Newton who was born in Carnbroe in Scotland. All very strange.

Anthony,

If the 1891 birth certificate doesn’t show a date and place of marriage, and doesn’t say "Jane Smith ms Newton" but just "Jane Newton", then you can probably safely assume they weren't married. (That information came first hand from the parents. They should know.). The information on the 1919 death certificate is 3rd hand and only as reliable as the informant’s knowledge. He/she may just have assumed the couple were married.  As I say the birth record suggests they weren’t. (Registration information is informant led. In those days no checks were made nor was any documentary evidence of identity or marital status required, and so if the information was inaccurate no-one would usually be any the wiser).

Samuel Smith/Smyth is a very common name in Ireland. In the 1901 census there were 300. 110 of them lived in Co Antrim.  318 people named Glass in Co Antrim in 1901. Difficult to trace these families without an idea of where they came from, ie a parish or townland.

Hi Elwyn

I believe I found James's first marriage to Jane Crawford in Racavan, Antrim in February 1859. I would guess this would be the bride's hometown, but not sure if James and his family were from there. Does this help at all?

Cheers

Anthony

Anthony,

That’s helpful. Racavan’s the name of the parish where they married. On 8th Feb 1859 at Broughshane 1stPresbyterian church. James Smith married Jane Maben. She was a widow and her maiden name was Crawford. Both lived in Ballycloghan. 

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1859/09563/5467029.pdf

Jane’s 1st marriage was in the same church in 1847 when she married William Mabeen (Maben). Jane was 21 so born c 1826. Somewhat older than James Smith.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1847/09322/5375553.p

Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church so that is likely to be the Crawford family church. Their records start around 1830. There’s a copy in PRONI in Belfast.

Griffiths Valuation for 1862 lists Jane’s father Thomas Crawford on plot 3 in Ballycloghan which was a 19 acre farm. (That farm today is on the Knowehead Rd, about 5 miles north east of Broughshane). 

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

I think from the Valuation Revision records that Thomas died around 1864 and was succeeded by his son James (who married Jane Dunlop in 1873):

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1873/11283/8139221.pdf

There were no Crawfords farming there in Ballycloghan 1901. I think that’s because they retired and moved nearby. The Ballycloghan farm was taken over by John Thompson around 1901 (according to the Valuation revision records).

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Broughshane/Ballycloghan/

This might be them nearby in Knockboy (Knockboy shares a boundary with Ballycloghan and they aren’t in the Valuation revision records as farmers in the 1890s. They just moved a few hundred yards):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Broughshane/Knockboy/928249/

I noticed this grave in Broughshane 1st graveyard which refers to Crawfords of Ballycloughan though they didn’t actually live there. They lived nearby in Creevamoy. However I’d say they are connected to your Jane’s family:

Erected by Wm James Crawford Ballycloughan In memory of his father William Crawford died 3rd Feby 1916 aged 90 years Also his mother Julia Crawford died 4th March 1920 aged 93 years Thomas Crawford died 3rd May 1957 aged 84 years

Here they are in 1901 & 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Broughshane/Cre…

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Broughshane/Cre…

The Crawford family aren’t too difficult to trace because being farmers they tended to stay put. However Samuel Smith was a labourer and they are notoriously difficult to trace because they moved around all the time to follow available work. They are not listed in Griffiths Valuation for Ballycloghan.

I looked for a death for Samuel Smith 1864 to 1901 but did not find one that fitted. There’s 1 possible Eliza Smith death in 1875 aged 51, regd in Ballymena, but it’s not on-line free.  I also looked for a Jane Smith death in the Ballymena registration area 1864 to 1871 (when you say James was in Scotland) but did not find one. There was one in 1866 aged 29 and another in 1867 aged 20 but that doesn’t fit for a woman born c 1826.

You can view the original certificate on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option: 

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate. 

Did he leave Jane in Ireland? Is that perhaps why he didn’t marry Jane Newton? He was still married to Jane Maben/Crawford.

Hi Elwyn

Thank you for your efforts with this.

As far as I am aware he came to Scotland alone. I think I found him living as a boarder in Shotts, Lanarkshire on the 1871 Census.

His first child was born that same year in Whitburn, just up the road from Shotts. I have no idea what he did between 1859 and 1870 and I'm not sure what happened to his wife.

You may be right about him still being married to Jane Crawford which meant he could not marry my great grandmother X 3 Jane Newton.

I'll check out that certificate on the GRONI website and let you know what I find.

Thanks again Elwyn,

Anthony