Stewart Family in Carrigallen

These 2 Stewart households were still in Carrigallen in 1901.  Both Church of Ireland. Living in the townlands of Annagh and Drumshangore.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Belhavel/Annagh/1485784/

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Leitrim/Corrala/Drumsh…

Unfortunately, the Carrigallen Church of Ireland parish registers were destroyed in the 1922 Public Records Office fire in Dublin.

Roger McDonnell

Thank you Roger and the volunteer from Elwyn.  I will follow up those Census families. My William Stewart was a Methodist and their church records are even harder to find!

Peter,

It’s worth understanding a little about Methodism’s origins. John Wesley (a Church of England minister) wanted Methodism to supplement the teachings of the Church of England/Ireland. He originally advised holding services on Sunday afternoon, so the congregation could still attend the Church of England/Ireland in the morning. He didn’t want it to be a separate denomination, though eventually it did become one.

Methodism took a lot longer to become established in Ireland as a separate denomination than in England. In Ireland there was considerable resistance to separating from the Church of Ireland. In 1816 the main body of Irish Methodists (the Wesleyans) took the decision to allow baptisms in their preaching houses or chapels, but it was a practice that was only gradually introduced so that it wasn’t until the 1830s or 1840s that it became fairly standard. Because of continuing loyalty and other factors, many - including Primitive Wesleyans - continued to use the Church of Ireland for years after this and it was 1871 before all Methodists routinely performed their own baptisms.

For Methodist marriages, the earliest I am aware of date from 1835 (Belfast Donegall Square, the first Methodist church in Ireland). However in the mid 1800s there were only a few Methodist Ministers (Methodism relied heavily on lay preachers). That shortage led to the continuing practice of marrying in the Church of Ireland. In addition, in the early years, many Methodist Meeting Houses were not licensed for marriages so that too contributed to couples marrying in the Church of Ireland.

So to summarise, you are unlikely to find many Methodist baptisms before 1829. Few marriages before 1840s and only a handful for many years after that. If there are no Methodist records in the location you are researching, try the Church of Ireland records instead as that’s the most likely place to find them.

Not many Methodist Meeting Houses have graveyards and so many are buried in public or Church of Ireland graveyards instead.

There is/was a Methodist Meeting House at Newtowngore, in Carrigallen. The following records exist and there’s a copy in PRONI in Belfast:

MIC1E/55 Baptisms, 1882-1961; marriages, 1897 - 1949, plus quarterly meeting minute books, 1897-1936.

So it looks to me as though Methodists in the Carrigallen area in the mid 1800s and earlier would have used the Church of Ireland for their baptisms & marriages but, as Roger has explained, sadly those early records are lost.

Attached Files

Dear Elwyn

Thank you so much for that detailed historical information about Methodism in Ireland - it clarifies a lot.

Given the lack of CoI records for Carrigallen, I'm wondering if there are any other records that may provide for me more details of the family of William Stewart. In particular, I really need to confirm the name of his parents.

The 1821 census records I've attached are all possible families from which William came. The ones in Kivey and Sonnagh (Sinaugh) town lands are of particular interest as the DMP and IRP records seem to indicate my William came from these town lands and the age of the son William listed is about right. Is there any way I can find out more about those 1821 Stewart families that just might connect them more conclusively to my William Stewart?

Once again thank you for your help.

Peter

Peter,

No easy sources spring to mind. It looks as though William Stewart and Eliza Caruth married before April 1845 - the start of statutory registration - which is a pity as their marriage certificate would normally give fathers names  and occupations. Prior to that it’s a matter of searching church records but you need to know where they married, and not all records have survived or are on-line as you know.

Many of the Leitrim Stewarts look to have been farmers. So they might show up in the Registry of Deeds. Have you searched there?(They are on Familysearch but are  a bit fiddly to work with). If there are any marriage settlements, or leases, especially 3 lives leases, then that can throw up additional information.

A lot of Irish research comes to a stop around 1800 due to the general lack of records.

I assume you have been down the DNA route? And have you tried to find out if any Stewarts still live in the Carigallen area? You could try contacting the local Church of Ireland to see if there are any in the congregation. (Newtowngore Methodist church has closed down.).  Few families are likely to know their history back 200 years but they might agree to a DNA comparison.

Findagrave has 6 Stuart gravestones in Carigallen Church of Ireland including an Eleanor Stuart (looks to have been wife of David who died 1956). She died in 1972 so there were some Stuarts there not too long ago.

William actually signed up to the Dublin Metropolitan Police (DMP), a separate force which covered Dublin city and parts of county Dublin. The DMP record (No. 1366) notes that when he signed up in August 1838 he was age 22, 5ft, 10 3/4 in. tall, and had previously been employed as a labourer and was at one time employed by in the revenue police and recommended for police service by a 'Captain O'Brien'. He worked in three police districts B, A and D - the first two cover the south city from the river Liffey to the Grand canal, and 'D' district covered the north-west of the city - and included Phoenix Park. William received a good service pay award for 15 years in 1855 and a pension on discharge in September 1858.

 

Elwyn - I haven't tried the Register of Deeds so will give that a go when I have some more time. I have done my DNA which confirms it matches with the broad region in which Leitrim lies on my maternal side and in north west Clare (Lisdoonvarna) on my father's side. I hadn't thought to be so bold as to ask locals for a DNA comparison. Would it really be acceptable to do so? 

Shane - Thank you for the DMP info. One interesting anomaly I'm trying to figure out is that William and his family arrived in Western Australia in May 1858 but the DMP record says he was discharged in Sept 1858. Is it possible that he simply left before the official paperwork went through?

 

That seems a little unusual to me too - presume the date refers to when the pension was awarded, and that he left before this. The column heading is 'Removal from the Force, Cause and Date' and all that's recorded in the limited space is the following "Disch^d Pen 28 Sept 58"

His DMP postings would fit with divisions B and A which would include Clanbrassil St., St. Luke's parish, Bishop's St.,/St. Peters etc, DMP district D would include parishes of such as Grangegorman, St. Michan's, parts of St. Paul's and St. Mary's etc

Peter,

I don’t think folk will give you their DNA simply in response to a letter out of the blue but if you were able to find some Stewarts still in the area, meet them face to face and establish a relationship with them, then you might be able to charm them into participating. I have known it happen.

In comparison with the US and elsewhere, comparatively few people here have done DNA tests (there wouldn’t be the same interest. We mostly know where we come from). So you would need to persuade them.

Hi again Selwyn - thanks for the advice. If I locate some Stewarts still in the Carrigallen area then I will certainly try to connect with them as unobtrusively as possible. My goal is not to annoy locals in any way - just to confirm as far as possible that my relatives really did come from that region.

Shane- Thanks for confirming that William's addresses matched two of his postings. I've often wondered what it must have been like for him to be a police officer in Dublin in those times and whether that contributed to his huge decision to emigrate to Australia.

Attached Files

Peter,

There’s a book you might find helpful:

The Dublin Metropolitan Police: A Short History and Genealogical Guide by Jim Herlihy.

“In the period 1836 to 1925 some 12,500 men served in the Dublin Metropolitan Police. This book collects information on all these policemen, constituting a quarry for their hundreds of thousands of descendants in Ireland, the United States and elsewhere. There are introductory chapters about the history of policing in Dublin, followed by a core chapter on 'Tracing your ancestors in the Dublin Metropolitan Police'. This is followed by the useful appendices which in turn include a complete alphabetical list of 12,566 names -- of all DMP men arranged by year of birth and native parish”.

A lot of Irish Police resigned and went to Australia with a view to joining the police there. Perhaps that was factor in your ancestors decision to emigrate, though at 47 he was probably a bit old to start again, but just a thought.. A discussion on the subject here:

https://irishconstabulary.com/irish-police-leaving-ireland-t4071.html

As far as policing in Dublin in the 1850s was concerned if you search the newspaper archives or Petty Session records (on findmypast, for example), you’ll find that most of the court cases were the same as you would find anywhere in the world. Drunkenness, being on licensed premises after hours, petty theft, breach of the peace, using abusive language, straying animals and so on.

I have attached a sample page from the Evening Freeman of 18th November 1856 which lists a number of typical cases in a Dublin court that week, including someone accidentally firing a gun after a few glasses of wine. Drink is often a factor in many of the cases you read about.

My point really is that with some exceptions, notably in the period 1900 - 1922, most Irish policing was much the same as policing anywhere.

I did a search on the newspaper archives for Police Constable Stewart + Dublin in the 1850s but did not find any cases he was named in. But it’s noticeable that many police officers were just identified by their numbers. Names were not always recorded in the court reporting at that time.

The Irish population shot up from 3 million in 1741 to 8 million in 1841. The industrial revolution largely passed Ireland by as it has few natural resources eg coal, oil, precious metals etc which generated millions of new jobs across Europe and Britain where those resources did exist. Land was extremely scarce, there were numerous famines, and nowhere near enough jobs for everyone. And that’s before we consider any political aspects. Many families realised that a future in Ireland was bleak and decided to leave. People poured out of Ireland all through the 19th century. Few came back.