Ballyrashane, Coleraine, Derry in the 1850s

Joe,

There?s no Hunter or McColgan/Colgan households in Pullans in the 1831 census. Likewise none listed in Griffiths Valuation for 1859. That suggests that the families? stay there was short lived. If William were the owner of a sawmill, it would have been there some years and so likely show up in Griffiths. Neither Pullans North or South has any mill listed. So I?d say that William worked for someone else in the area essentially as a labourer, sawing timber as required.

For a general description of life around Pullans and Ballyrashane in the mid 1800s, you should read the OS memoirs for Co Derry. These were drawn up in the 1830s and give a very detailed account of life, social conditions, trades, religion, local issues etc, on a parish by parish basis.

Pullans is in the parish of  Killdollagh. Ballyrashane is a separate parish. Copies of the Co Derry memoirs for both parishes are held in PRONI, Belfast and in other local history libraries.

The Mc & O prefixes on Irish names were detachable and so you will often find the name without the prefix. It was a matter of whim whether it was used or not.

That the two families were Presbyterians and lived in Co Derry indicates that their ancestors almost certainly originated in Scotland and probably came to Ireland some time in the 1600s.

Elwyn

Elwyn

Thank you for your response which is most helpful. As you say both families may have moved around to where the work was. I shall have a look for the local history at the time in the locations you suggest.

Following Joseph Hunter and Jane's marriage in the Presbyterian church in 1850, they had three children before emigrating to Milton of Campsie / Lennoxrtown, Glasgow around 1858. Ann b1851, Eliza Jane b1854 and Matilda b1855 but I cant seem to trace them being born in Ireland for some reason. I'll keep looking!

Joe

Joe,

Statutory birth registration only started in Ireland in 1864. Prior to that you need to rely on church records but not all the records have survived and not all are on-line.

Tradition was to marry in the bride?s church. So whatever church that was is where I would look for her baptism. What was it, and roughly when was she born? I?ll then tell you whether there are any records and where they are kept.

For her husband, you would need to have some idea of where he was born. There are dozens of Presbyterian churches in that area and to search them all would take ages. And many don?t have records from the 1820s/1830s.

For their children, it would depend on where they were living. I?d start with the church where they married, but there are several other Presbyterian churches in the vicinity of Pullans. (And of course they may well have moved, so the children might be baptised in different churches).

I looked in the 1831 census for Hunter. There are 190 in Co Derry, with about 10 William Hunters. So plenty to choose from. For Robert McColgan, there was only one (and no Robert Colgans). The 1 Robert was in Ballyclaber aka Claber, which is in the parish of Coleraine. So I?d say there?s a chance that?s the bride?s father. Having said that, where these families were living (in Pullans) is right on the county boundary with Co Antrim.  The 1831 and other early censuses for Co Antrim are destroyed and so if that?s where they came from we won?t know. The full copy of the 1831 is in PRONI. On it you can find out how many people lived in each household and what denomination they were. So you could get an opportunity to assess whether it?s the right family, and if so, approximately how many siblings the bride had in 1831.

Agricultural workers and labourers tended to rent a property for a year or less and move to follow the work. Mechanisation was beginning to reduce the need for such labour and for the weaving that they tended to do in the winter months, and so that?s why they moved about a lot, and why the next generation just got the first boat to Glasgow where there were much better employment opportunities due to the industrial revolution. These agricultural labourers are notoriously difficult to trace in Ireland because of the constant moving.

Elwyn

Elwyn

Thanks again for your detailed response

From the Scottish censuses from 1861 onwards for Joseph and Jane, their recorded ages are inconsistent but my best guess is that Joseph was born around 1826 and Jane 1831.

I also believe they were married in the Ballyrashane Presbyterian church 24 September 1850.

I am finding the PRONI site difficult to find the 1831 census and to negotiate around, I can find these microfiche details

MIC/5A/5 and 6 Barony of Coleraine;

MIC/5A/6 and City of Londonderry;

MIC/5A/8A-B Barony of Loughlinsholin;

MIC/5A/9A Barony of Tirkeeran.

but I cant seem to be able to find the microfiche on the website to search or review. 

However,  I did get an Excel download of it from Bill Mcafee's website here http://www.billmacafee.com/sourcesbdms.htm and did find the 10 William Hunters, one of which lived in the NE Liberties (Pullans?) but I cant find his denomination, the record number is 29245 Ballyaghran, Cappagh. There are two others in NW Liberties - 32116 and 34262 which are possibilites. I did also find Robert McColgan in NE Liberties in Ballyclaber.

As to the three girls I have asked the Presbyterian church for any help they can provide for baptisms.

Thanks again for your kind assistance

Joe

Joe,

The 1831 census isn?t on-line at PRONI. It?s on microfilm and a personal visit is required to view it. All you can get on-line are the various film references (which you have done). Bill McAfee has put the names on-line on his site, but he hasn?t put the details of how many people were in each household, or what denomination they were. There?s also a column for servants. You have to look the originals up in PRONI to get that extra data. (The 1831 census only named the head of household, plus how many people of each sex, what denomination they were and how many servants they had). I have attached an example of what you see on the originals.

Pullans is in Kildollagh parish, which is in Coleraine Barony. So the Pullans records should be in either MIC5A/5 or 6. (There?s an index in PRONI to tell you exactly which film you need).

Ballyrashane Presbyterian church has no baptism records earlier than 1863 so if that?s the church where Jane was baptised then you?ll be out of luck. However are you certain it was that church? Ballyrashane is the parish where they married but there?s more than 1 Presbyterian church in that parish. For example, there?s Ballywatt (known as 2^nd Ballyrashane till about 1870). This is the trouble with transcripts. Rootsireland is a good site but they don?t copy all the details and so sometimes there?s key information missing. You might need to buy the marriage cert to be certain which church it was.

Elwyn

Elwyn

Thanks again for your continued assistance and insight, much appreciated. I thought that PRONI had a search facility through their records but understand better how it works now.

I originally found the marriage here : https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FGFW-SZL

which led me to the Ballyrashane church and the Roots Ireland site pointed me to Pullans and Presbyterian. So maybe I will take your advice and get hold of their marriage certificate to see if it reveals any further details about them.

Regards

Joe

Joe,

The reference details you need are Coleraine 1850 Volume 4, page 85.

You can order a photocopy from GRO Roscommon for ?4 per certificate. Put the place, year, volume & page number on the application form (anywhere). Don?t worry about leaving some boxes blank. You don?t need to fill them all in if you have the reference details. http://www.groireland.ie/ You have to post or fax the form to them but they will e-mail the copy certificate to you if you wish. Tick the relevant box on the form.

I?ll get you a copy of the McColgan census entry next time I am in PRONI (which will be in a couple of weeks).

Elwyn

Thanks again Elwyn

I have completed the form for the marriage cert. I really appreciate that you will pick up the Mccolgin census from PRONI.

Regards

Joe

Hi there Elwyn,  I have just received the original (copy) of the marriage cert but am having difficulty deciphering it. I cant make out Married in the "????" looks like MOLTINGHOME OF DOHAM?  and further along the same line Church, "by hern" - BALLYRAHERN? and further along the same line I cant make out the minister's name. As for the two witnesses, John Thompson is one but  the other is more difficult to decipher - Robt? Sickolist? Nicholas?

So I am a little further forward

Best regards

Joe

Robert,

I have a copy of the 1831 census, from MIC5A/6 at PRONI. Unfortunately I cannot get my scanner to work at present, so can?t immediately send you a copy. However I can tell you that there were 4 males in the households, and 6 females, all Presbyterian. No servants. So that fits with it being your family. So that?s probably husband and wife, and about 8 children (normal for the time). Perhaps an elderly relative there too, who knows?

Your marriage certificate is really difficult to read. I?d say the church is Ballyrashane Presbyterian, in the parish of Ballyrashane. The other words are ?married at the Meeting House of B?shane?. (Meeting House is a term used for a Presbyterian church, especially in Ireland).

I can?t make out the townlands but have sent the cert to a friend who lives nearby to see if she can help.

Elwyn

Elwyn, it's Joe here, not Robert 8-)

Thank you so much once again for your help and assistance, thats great news - I hope you can get your scanner working - is it for the Hunter or the McColgin famiy?

I have been asking others about the certificate and with their help  I have had it confirmed that it reads:-

"Married in the Meeting House of Ballyrashane according to the form and discipline for the Presbyterian Chirch by licence by me"  

I can't make out the minister's name

The Townland for both is Pullins and Joseph is a labourer.

As for the witnesses I am sure one is John Thompson and the other is still a mystery - Robert - Nicholas - if it is Nicholas it is an unsusual way of writing a capital N

Thanks again and best regards

Joe

Joe,

Sorry about the error in your name.

The census is for Robert McColgan.

Here?s a better copy of your marriage certificate. Both townlands are indeed Pullans. The witness whose name you cannot make out was Robert Nickle. The Minister?s surname may have been Alexander. (If you really want to know, write to the current Minister or to the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast. Both should be able to tell you. In the Presbyterian Church, Ministers normally stayed at the same church for most of their career, so it should be easy enough to find out who it was).

Elwyn

Thanks again Elwyn - that is a clearer certificate than the Roscommon one I sent earlier.

Regards

Joe

Hi Elwyn

Did you manage to get your scanner working yet? I'd love to see the document

Thanks

Joe

Joe,

Yes. I have attached the census. It?s quite hard to read the names, as you will see. However viewing it on the microfilm, with the light coming through, the names are easier to read and so I know that your family are no 16. You can probably just about read the ?olgan?.

The page is A3 and so there?s a bit more of the document to the right for ?observations? but there aren?t any in this townland.

Elwyn

Elwyn

Once again thank you so much for your time and efort in finding this for me.

One last question, on the document is the townland shown as CLABY? or is it some other location. I found it difficult to decipher the letter after B in CLAB?

I've looked for Claby on the net and it does seem to have an irish connection, however, whether it is pertinent to NE Liberties or Pullans in Londonderry I dont know.

Regards

Joe

Yes it's Claber (which is Ballyclaber). It's in NE Liberties.