Williamson Kilmacanty

Do you know what denomination the Williamson family were and what townland they lived in?

Elwin, The tree websites in Ausrtalia have the family in Templepatrick. Anna married a Stafford also from Ireland. Her name, marriage, burial in a Dutch Reform church graveyard would say, Protestant.  Bill

Bill,

I had a look at the 1901 census for the Templepatrick area. There were no Williamsons living there then, though the name is very common in Co. Antrim. No Birkmires anywhere in Ireland at that time. There was just one Birkmire household in Ireland then. They were Presbyterian and lived in Larne.

John’s birth, marriage and the births of his children are all long before the start of statutory registration and so you would need to rely on church records to confirm the information you have.

If the family were Church of Ireland (ie Episcopalian) then the bad news is that Templepatrick’s records only start in 1827 and so probably too late for you. If they were Presbyterian, then the Non Subscribing Presbyterian church has records from 1796 (baptisms) and 1797 (marriages) so John’s marriage and the children’s baptisms could be in those records. (Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church, and thereafter she’d attend her husband’s, so the marriage and subsequent baptisms could be in different churches.)

[Prior to 1830, when a branch of the Church split away to form the Non-Subscribing Presbyterian Church, the Templepatrick NSP records relate to Templepatrick Presbyterian Church of the General Synod]

The most common denomination in the Templepatrick area is Presbyterian (indicating Scottish origins of course, normally from the 1600s). The problem you face is that in addition to Templepatrick NSP church, there are about a dozen other Presbyterian churches in that area (Hydepark, Lylehill, Muckamore, Donegore, Grange, Ballyclare and so on). Presbyterians in Ireland don’t use the parish system and so which church you attend is a matter of personal preference and not necessarily the closest to where you lived.

However Templepatrick NSP church is probably the only one in that general area with any records for the late 1700s and early 1800s, so it’s possibly your only choice. I don’t think their records are on-line anywhere but there is a copy in PRONI, the public record office, in Belfast. Free to view, but a personal visit is required to access them. MIC1B/11 is the PRONI reference if you go there.

Elwyn, Thank you for the informqation. . The irony is that I have been to the North 4 or 5 times in the past but did not have te Australia hint. I organized a business group to your area at the request of the US government that made its way into Clinton's speech a long time ago. I guess, I will have to return and spend a few days in the records center. Thank you again for the information. I noted the last child was born in Belfast so the family may have moved and than spread out around the world so the postings maybe the only way to verify information. Bill Stafford

I see on the web that a Joanne Williamson from Templepatrick was selected for a US North Island mentoring program in 2015 so I guess a few hung around.

Templepatrick today is a commuter village for Belfast.  It’s just beside the motorway into the city and there’s also a very good bus service. You can be in the city centre in 20 minutes. It’s also 10 minutes from the airport. So very well located. A lot of new houses have been built there in the past 20 years or so, and so there’s now a sizeable population but obviously most would be incomers and not necessarily local to the immediate area.

Here's a photograph of the Williamson headstone at Templepatrick Church of Ireland.  I don't think it actually answers your question.  I've come across roughly 30 Williamsons in the area in the 19th century and I'm sure there was many more.

I do not know more that the Australian Tree's have. I have contacted Australia but the answers I have received only know the info was passed down in their families. I am debating wheher a visit to Belfast is worth the trip. I have been there four times for busines so I have seen many of the sights. Anothe "Jar" of beer is attractive. Bill Stafford Seattle

If interested in the Williamson Family, John and Hanna with children, Joseph 1806, John 1808, James 1810, Andrew 1812, Thomas H 1814, William 1817, Samuel 1819, Elizabeth 1821 and Anna 1823, I have created a tree with over 300 decandents from trees posted in Australia, US and Ireland. It is a work in progress. It is on Ancestry.com as Williamson Family Tree. Bill Stafford Seattle Wa.

Hi, my name is Jonathan Williamson. I was brought up not far from Templepatrick, in the townland of Shaneoguestown, Muckamore, where my father, Samuel Williamson was the minister in Muckamore Presbyterian Church in the 1950's and 60's.Our family are descended from John Williamson and Hannah Birkmire. Most of the next couple of generations are buried in the old graveyard in Templepatrick, behind the wall in Castle Upton. They worshipped in the Old Presbyterian Church (Non-Subscribing) My Great-Grandfather David Williamson was an architect and builder who travelled all over Ireland before settling in Enniscorthy, Co Wexford, where he set up his own building firm. This was continued by his sons, who were all tradesmen, and was run by my Grandfather Robert (Bob) until the 1950's. My father, Sam was born in Enniscorthy, and studied first to become an engineer, and then went into the Presbyterian Church, being minister in Cobh and Aghada in Co Cork, and Greystones in Co Wicklow before moving to Muckamore in the mid 1950's.

I live in Somerset, having worked in the English West Country, with my wife, and grown-up family all also settled in England. My two brothers and sister still live in Co Antrim.

I just came across this site this evening idly googling.......! If I can be of any help, please do ask.

Jonathan 

PS the photo is of the family burial site in the old graveyard in Templepatrick, where the Templetown Mausoleum is sited.

Hi Jonathan,

I’m not the original poster here, but it is interesting to hear from you.  I think we are almost cousins.

David Williamson was married twice.  His first wife was Susanna Minniece (née Campbell) my 1st cousin 5x removed.  I’m guessing you are descended from his second wife Margaret Oliver?

Was your grandfather Robert Clarke Williamson?  What brought your family back to Co Antrim?

Jonathan, I gather as Ganstry you are a descendant of Robert Clarke Williamson. That would make your Great Great Grandfather and my Great Grandmother brother and sister. My Great Grand Father Benjamin Stafford also came from Ireland where it is a Wexford name. I have brought a couple of business missions from Seattle to Bristol and my wife ran a youth center in Crediton down your way. I have slowly amassed a tree of Williamsons going back to 1690 partly based on the work of the families of the three brothers who moved to Australia. My daughter and I are tentatively planning to go to Belfast in early September to a week program by the Ulster History Foundation. I have been in Northern Island a number of times beginning with a bringing a business group at the request of the US Embassy prior to the Clinton visit. We are awaiting the outcome of the EU exit to asses the border outcome and politics. I am in touch with Australian Williamsons and it is great to be in contact wit Ireland/ Britian. If I go this fall, I will let you know so that if your family want to have a pint or dinner, it can be set up. My email is wantagh@comcast.net. Bill Stafford Seattle Wa. 

Yes, as you both have rightly worked out, my grandfather was Robert Clarke Williamson, and my great-grandmother was Margaret Oliver. I knew that my great-grandfather David had married twice, but unfortunately I wasn't particularly interested in family history in the time when several of my grandfather's generation were still alive. All the questions we should have asked when we were younger, and the generation with the answers were still alive! Ganstry, family folklore has it that David had 2 children by his previous marraige, that I now know was to Susanna Minneice. Is that correct, and do you have any details? Did Susanna have any children by her first marriage? Was she a local girl from Templepatrick? I'm not sure what brought my father and mother back to Co. Antrim. As he was a minister in the Presbyterian Church in Ireland, he could have received a call to anywhere in the island. I must ask my brother Stephen, he is also a Presbyterian minister in Ballywillan, Portrush. Bill, we live on the Somerset Levels just outside Taunton, about an hour's drive from Bristol. Our son Sam is a lecturer in Bristol University.Whereabouts in Wexford did your Stafford forefathers come from? We have lived and worked at various times in Somerset, Wiltshire, South Devon, Cornwall for 25 years, and are now happily retired.I have had quite a bit of contact in the past with the Australian branch of the family, but lost most of their details back along when my laptop decided to erase everything, like they do 2 years after you last backed up...................! I used to correspond with Pan Wilcox regularly, but in between winding up our business, having a very ill daughter and moving house, I let that slip. I guess Pan has passed on by now. I will pass your details on to my brothers and sister in Co Antrim, I'm sure they would be delighted to meet up. The photo is of my great grandmother Margaret (nee Oliver) and her family, my best guess is that it was taken for Tom's wedding. Best Wishes from (not so!) Sunny Somerset, Jonathan

Jonathan, Just returned from Taking pictures in Southern Africa of animals. I am not sure where Benjamin came from in Ireland. He arrived when the food ran out. I visited the Wexford history center and the person running it ws a Stafford. I believe Ann and Benjamin met in Flatlands a village now part of Brooklyn. They are buried in a Dutch Reform Church cemetary established by Peter Stuyvesant when New York was Dutch. The location of their farm was a overnight location for the British army before the Battle of Long Ireland. When I organized the study mission of around 70 Seattle leaders to Bristol and London, we had a lunch at Bristol University. We also had a great dinner on the Great Britian. I talked the Bishop into speaking on his views of Bristol and the Lord Mayor and the entire city wanted to come. I was at St Mary Redclifffe for the dedication of the Mathew. I like Bristol. I will see what I can find on Susanna Minneice. My daughter is on the faculity of one of our community colleges. We will make a decision on Belfast when we see what happens in March with Europe and the border. Bill Stafford

Jonathan, David had two wives, Margaret Oliver and Susannah M Cambell. She seems to have had an eariler husband named Minnence. There are two children listed from the Cambell marriage David who married Maud Pratt and John C. who married Mae Beatrice Cullen. Thse couples had children. How much do you want. The Austrilian Williamsons, the three boys, had many decendands. I do not have a Pan Wilcox but I have the Wilcox line and this may be a nickname for one of the women or she is to young to show up. The Williamson boys founded Nyrang Springs. This is around 200 miles inland from Sydney. A new book was published by Miriam Loomes, Nyrang Springs Revisited, which will give you a glimpse into the Williamson relatives in Australia. I will do a little digging on Pan. Bill

Hi Bill, Yes I now have a copy of the wedding certificate of David and Susanna Minniece. She had married James Minniece in 1864, but James died in 1867. There was probably at least one child, also James, who is listed in both the 1901 and 1911 census at Ballynabarnish, Craigarogan. I have quite a bit on the Australian family, as I researched them quite thoroughly a few years ago. I'm just about to go away for the week-end, but when I return I will send you the details on Pan - her full name is Pansy, but she detested it because of the cowardly connotations!

Best Wishes,

Jonathan

Have you come across www.irishgenealogy.ie ? There's a lot of good information there, Birth, marriage and death certificates, easy to use, and it's free! Jonathan

Jonathan,

Thanks for the great photo of the Williamson family. 

As Bill has mentioned, David Williamson’s first wife was previously married to James Minniece.  Below is an extract from the Ulster Directory of Doctors about him:

MINNIECE, JAMES (1838/9-67), Belfast:

Born 1838/9, son of William Minniece, contracter, of Whiteabbey; educated at Belfast Academy; studied medicine at Queen’s College, Belfast, from 1856; MRCSE 1859; general practitioner, of Belfast; married 26 July 1864 in Templepatrick Non-subscribing Presbyterian Church, Susanna Campbell, daughter of James McNeilly Campbell, farmer, of Carngraney, county Antrim; died 2 March 1867 at Ballynabarnish, Templepatrick,of phthisis. [Coleraine Cronicle 9 March 1867 (d); Dub GRO (d); Med Dir; QCB adm reg; UHF database (m)].

Susanna’s father was James McNeilly Campbell (c1806-1886) of Carngranny, Templepatrick.  His father was the (second) Rev. Robert Campbell (c1771-1855).

My connection is through Susanna Campbell’s mother Jennie Barron who was a daughter of Joseph Barron (c1773-1845) and Elizabeth Fee (c1781-1837), my ggggg grandparents.

Jennie’s elder sister Jane Barron (c1807-1884) married Ezekiel Davis Wiley (c1805-1854) of Ballycushan, Templepatrick.  Their eldest daughter Elizabeth Wiley (1830-1916) married James Ferguson (1826-1885) of Silversprings, Parkgate.  They were my ggg grandparents.

Regards,

Ganstry

David Williamson 1843 - 1911

Hello, James Minneice and Susannah Campbell were my great great great grandparents. Looks like we are all related lol I know for sure that they had one daughter, Lily Minneice who was my great great grandmother. 

Hi,

We are indeed cousins!  James Minniece and Sussanna Campbell also had a son James born in 1867.  He was alive, unmarried and living in Ballynabarnish in 1911 – after that I don’t know what became of him.

Lilly Minniece married William Moore, and as far as I know they had two children – Sussanna and William.  Which are you descended from?

By the way, if any descendants of Susanna Campbell are thinking of doing DNA tests I would encourage it!  I’ve tested on FTDNA, but am currently lacking cousins on the Barron side who have tested.  :(

Ganstry

Susannah Campbell 1846 to 1874 also married to David Williamson. For Elwyn, I attended the Ulster Historical Foundation program in September and traced the Williamsons in Tempepatrick back to William Williamson 1625 to 1700 in Ballyhagen and Kilmacanty Townlands. To my supprise they were Quakers in one of the first settlements by Quakers in NI. His will was signed by a George Fox founder of the Quakers or someone named after him but Fox visited this meeting house so possible the real one. Sadly my daughter found the will the last day so we were not able to do more Quaker research. We visited the Money Hill Friends burial grounds and saw the tombstone in Templepatrick. I met cousins in Templepatrick. I have to return and complete the research. Bill Stafford Seattle

Hi Ganstry, so exciting! I'm descended from William Moore (great grandfather). I don't believe "Aunty Suzie" ever married, but she was very loved by my grandmother! I'm in the process of doing the DNA test via Ancestry. Which one did you do? Funny to think of us being cousins - albeit remote. Wonder what level of cousins we would be? 6x removed? Where do you live now? I'm in Canada. 

Anon,

That makes you my 6th cousin!  I use FTDNA for my testing – it is the most commonly used one in Northern Ireland (I grew up about 8 miles from Templepatrick).

If you want, you can transfer your Ancestry results to FTDNA (yes please!) which I think you can do for free now (there used to be a small fee).  Alternatively I have my results all up on GEDmatch too.

Who did William Moore marry?  Susannah (Suzie?) Moore did actually marry – to Thomas Bill in 1916.

Williamson,

Please tell us more about what you found on the Williamsons!  Do you happen to know what the connection would be between your Williamsons and Luke Williamson (c1814-1865)?

Ganstry

Hi Ganstry, name is Abi, don't need to be anon! When I get my ancestry results, I will definitely  transfer, or may just do another test! Am very excited to get the results, as am intrigued to see what they'll show. Great Grandfather William Moore married Gladys Irvine from Dublin. William Moore was a bank manager and transferred back to Belfast after partition in the late 1920s - it was too dangerous to stay down south for them back then. The bank that burnt down in Belfast recently was the one managed by him when he returned to Northern Ireland. My mother is from Belfast and that's my connection to the area. We still have cousins living in the area, but they're from my grandfathers side so not related to the Moore side. Am surprised that Aunty Suzie got married, never heard that. I wonder if her husband died or they didn't have children. I find it absolutely fascinating that you grew up in the area. Are you still living there? 

Sorry to clarify - the building that burnt down was the primark building....

Hi, I'm sorry that I haven't been here for a while. I'm just back from a Williamson family wedding in Portrush in Co. Antrim, and find that the message board has come alive!! 

Bill, I'm amazed by the bits and pieces that you found out about the Williamson Quaker connection. I will have to put some time to that over the winter. I'm glad you had a good time in Belfast and Templepatrick.

Ganstry, Whereabouts in the 8 mile radius of Templepatrick did you grow up? Sheer curiosity, since the same description fits my youth!!

Abi/Ganstry, By sheer coincidence, at the wedding last week-end I was talking to an old school friend of mine from the Bill family in Templepatrick, who is also extremely interested in his family history. I shall ask him if he has any record of the marriage of Susannah to Thomas Bill.

Hopefully now the evenings are darker I will have less distraction from the dozens of jobs that need to be done outside......

Jonathan

Hi Abi,

Your posts don’t have a name at the bottom, so I wasn’t sure what to call you!  I guess you must be posting as a “guest”?  

Thanks for the extra information.  I wouldn’t have thought to look for William R Moore’s marriage in Dublin, so probably wouldn’t have found it.  Was your mother a Moore?

Here are the marriage notices for William and Lilly Moore’s two children:

Belfast Newsletter, 7th Apr 1916:
BILL - MOORE - April 4, 1916, at the residence of the bride's parents, by the Rev. T.G.G. Collins, B.D.  Thomas Bill, Antrim Road, Belfast ??? son of John Bill, Edmonton, Canada, so Susan Campbell, only daughter of Mr. and Mrs. William Moore, Cliftonville, Belfast.

Northern Whig, 5th Aug 1918:
MOORE - IRVINE - July 27, 1918, at Rathfarnham Church, by the Rev. A. E. Hughes, M.A., Rector of the Parish, and the Rev. J. Sandys Bird, William Robert, only son of Mr. and Mrs. William Moore, Cliftonville, Belfast, to Gladys Kathleen, younger daughter of the late George H. Irvine, Corren, Kenilworth Park, and stepdaughter of Mrs. C. N. Irvine, 31, Brighton Square, Rathgar.

Jonathan,

I grew up in Straid, 8 miles in the other direction to you!  I currently live up in Coleraine – not far from that wedding you’re just back from.

Ganstry,

I was right on your doorstep! My brother Stephen, whose daughter was getting married, is minister in Ballywillan Presbyterian Church, and my friend Rev Alistair Bill, who grew up in Templepatrick now lives in Coleraine!

Small world!

Jonathan

Ganstry, no Luke so far at that date. One in 1899. Bill Stafford

There is this Luke Williamson's grave in the old graveyard beside the Templetown Mausoleum in Templepatrick. I haven't yet had the time (or the patience!) to decipher it, and discover the dates etc.

Luke Joseph Williamson (my Great-Uncle Joe) was born on 23rd April 1898. He was a lovely man, and trained many of his nephews and great-nephews to be skilled woodworkers.

Jonathan

Jonathan,

Small world indeed.  Bill is certainly a name that crops up in Templepatrick – do you happen to know who Alistair’s ancestors were?

The headstone photo you posted is for the Luke Williamson I’m wondering about.  Here is my attempt at a transcription from my own photo:

Servant of God; well done.  Erected by the members of the Roughfort Reading Society and their friends to the memory of LUKE WILLIAMSON, of this parish, who died 8th September 1865, aged 51 years.  A man upright and honourable ennobled by Christian gr??? ?? ??ever cultivated with g??? ?? ?? old and young a plea?? ??? and to all a friend.  Also his sister Ellen WILLIAMSON who died 10th April 1894 aged 74 years.  Also LUKE HOPE the loving husband of Agnes Hope who died ?th February 1936.

Hi Ganstry

I don't know of Alistair's ancestors, other than his father, who was Dr James Bill, the GP who lived and practiced in the middle of the village, and was our family doctor as we grew up. I know Dr Bill had several brothers and sisters living and farming locally. This was Alistair's reply to my query about Thomas Bill -

 I can’t help you immediately on your query re Susanna Moore and Thomas Bill. They are not in our family tree, but are likely to be part of the ‘village Bills’ family, rather than the ‘country Bills’, which is our side. However, I do have some papers on the ‘village Bills’ which I’ve yet to examine.

The inscription on the Luke Williamson headstone would point to him being one of our family - somewhere!!! Our family farmed and had a mill at Roughfort, and Craigarogan. I will have to dig some more!

Cheers

Jonathan

I think Thomas Bill’s parents were John Bill and Eliza Jane Burke.  This would be John’s grave in Edmonton, Canada:

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/119354304

There is a tree on Ancestry which has more on the family.  

John’s father seems to have been another John Bill who was a farmer/carpenter.  He was likely from the Templepatrick area and moved to Belfast.

My G-G-Grandmother was a Williamson. In NSW descendant from the same family you are talking about. Thanks Bill for the great information. I’m doing my tree on ancestry as we speak. Thanks for putting up photos of John grave. That saves me a trip to Belfast (quite a hike from Australia). I’m keen to network if anybody is interested. Marcus McLennan

Hello Marcus, which one of the Williamson brothers are you descended from? I used to be in contact with Pan Wilcox in NSW a few years ago, but I guess she has passed away by now. My brothers and sister still live in Co Antrim, my sister and one of my brothers are not very far from Templepatrick. We all grew up in Muckamore, about 5 miles from Templepatrick. Best Wishes, Jonathan Williamson

Hello Jonathan, 

My G-G-Grandmother was Evelyn Hannah Williamson. Her father was William Crothers Williamson b. Templepatrick 1817. His father was John Williamson.

Marcus

Hi Marcus,

Just butting in here.  Was Crothers the middle name for William born 1817?  I have a William Williamson who married ____ Crothers.  Apparently they went to America.  Same people?

Regards,
Ganstry

William Crothers Williamson moved to Australia with two brothers. Thoma and Anna moved to US. Bill Stafford

My William Crothers Williamson was born in 1817. But he died in Australia.

Thanks to this website I’ve corrected some mis-information here in Australia. Williams father John has been listed here as being born in Tyrone and buried in Belfast, both a wrong. He was born in Armagh and is buried in Antrim.

Marcus

Sorry, I checked again and William Fee McKinney (PRONI T1013/2B) does say William went to Australia, not America.  This is what I currently have on the family:

John WILLIAMSON (c1785-1867) m. (21st Feb 1806) Hannah BIRKMYRE
-    Joseph WILLIAMSON (c1806-1890)
-    John WILLIAMSON (c1808-1874) m. Margaret McALLISTER (c1815-1891)
-    James WILLIAMSON (1810-1898)
-    Andrew WILLIAMSON (c1812-?) m. ____ LYNN and went to America
-    Thomas WILLIAMSON (c1815-?) m. ____ BIRKMYRE and went to America
-    William WILLIAMSON (1817-?) m. ____ CROTHERS and went to Australia
-    Samuel WILLIAMSON (1819-1891)
-    Eliza WILLIAMSON (c1821-1862) m. John McCLEAN

I didn’t know John senior was born in Armagh.  Is that from family tradition?

The Crothers wife for William Williamson comes from McKinney, but perhaps he was getting confused by the middle name.  Or could William have married a Crothers and taken on her name for some reason?

Hi Ganstry, sorry for slow response! I got my DNA results back and got a bunch of Williamson's as relatives! Have L****a Williamson as a direct match. I will upload to FTdna as suggested. Hope all are well in these covid times?! 
Abi 

Hello - following back to old posts - my grandmother was a Moore.... her daughter is my mother. 

Apparently John was born in Kilmacanty in Armagh. Kilmore is in Armagh, i think.

MM

Hi Abi, good to hear from you again.  I’m excited to hear you’ll upload your results to FTDNA.  Hopefully all goes smoothly, and I really hope we match.  As we’re 6th cousins (quite distant) there’s a good chance we won’t, but fingers crossed.

Hi Abi, were you able to transfer your results to FTDNA?  If you did, I recommend joining the Barron DNA project (one of the administrators advised me to invite you):

https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/barron-dna-project/about

Hopefully your results will help with ongoing research into the Templepatrick Barrons (mainly via y-DNA testing, but autosomal helps too).

Hi Ganstry, looping back around here! Hope you're doing well? Uploaded to FTDna - B828359 and also to Gedmatch- AN6401108. Not quite sure how either work, but let's see if we are related. I did the FTDna upload today btw. Stay well, Abi

Hi Abi.  No sign of you on FTDNA yet (it's possible we're too far apart), and Gedmatch says it doesn't recognise that kit number.

Hey Ganstry, something odd seems to be going on with my FTDna - they sent me an email saying it had been uploaded, but nothing has appeared. Going to contact their help team. #watchthisspace!

Hi Abi.  The Gedmatch kit number you gave still doesn’t seem to be working.  In the meantime, I have got both my parents tested on Ancestry – my username there is Ganstry, same as here.

Hi there, I have Williamson from Belfast c1800. Thomas was a shipwright. He married Jane Robinson c1821 and had 3 children. Jane b circa 1821, John (my line) c1832, James c1838. They all migrated to Cumberland, England before the 1841 English census. My John then migrated to Melbourne, Australia in 1854. Descendants of James migrated later on to Victoria also. My gedmatch number if anyone wanted to check is SQ3424334 crossing my fingers as this lot are one of my brickwalls! :(

I am descended from John Williamson and Margaret McAlister through their son Thomas (my great grandfather).

Thomas was a younger brother of my great-grandfather David.

I have him as a grocer who married Margaret Wilson on 14th June 1881 in Ballynure Methodist Chapel.

Another distant cousin - welcome!

Jonathan Williamson