Share This:

Hello,

If anyone can help me locate any information about Peter Quinn, I would greatly appreciate it. The 1851 England Census has him in London, with his birth location listed as Forkill, Armagh, and born circa 1816. In 1841, he married Mary McPartlan of Dundalk, Louth in London, and his father is listed as John, Farmer. The 1861 England Census has the young couple in London with two children, Eliza and Edward (my ancestor). There is a large gap between the ages of the children, and if I can find a son James born to the couple, that sure would solve a puzzle.

I have attached the applicable documents to Peter Quinn in my profile, and extra documents that show the trail from Peter to my great-grandfather, Peter James Quinn, who married in New York City in 1908.

I am really hoping to solidify Peter's roots in Forkill, Armagh: birth/baptism, parents, siblings, etc.

Thanks so much in advance!

Don Quinn, USA

Don Quinn

Saturday 11th Feb 2023, 06:17PM

Message Board Replies

  • Don,

    Peter was born long before the start of statutory birth registration in Ireland (1864). Prior to that we generally rely on church records where they exist. I assume Peter was RC. If so, the RC parish of Forkhill doesn’t have any baptism records prior to 1845 so you won’t find a record of his birth.

    However you have told us that Peter’s father John was a farmer. Most farmers were listed in the tithe applotment records (c 1825 – 1835). The records for Forkhill parish in 1828 list 2 John Quin(n) farms. One in Aughanduff and the other in Carricknagavna. There seems a strong chance that one of those is your family:

    http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/forkill-parish.php

    The surname Quinn is very common in the area, with numerous Quinn families in those 2 townlands, so some work will be required to sort them out.

    16 Quinns in Aughanduff in the 1901 census (4 households):

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Dorsey/Aughanduff/

    9 Quinn households in Carricknagavna in 1901:

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Latberget/Carricknagavana/

     

     

    Elwyn, IrelandXO Volunteer ☘

    Sunday 12th Feb 2023, 01:07AM
  • Thank you very much for your reply, Elwyn.

    Don Quinn

    Monday 13th Feb 2023, 09:56PM
  • Hello Don,

    In reference to the 1861 census, you had mentioned there is a large gap between the ages of Eliza, 13, and Edward, 2. This is an indication that Peter and Mary Quinn had other children who had died.

    For quick review I’ve attached the 1861 census to this reply.

    I looked for the civil registration birth indexes for any Quinn children whose mother’s maiden name was McPartland/McPartlan/Partland/Partland at the General Register Office (GRO) website. The GRO is located in Southport, England.

    To access the birth indexes I had to provide the surname of the child. The first name of the child is optional. You also provide the year of birth, plus or minus 2 years, the gender of the child, and the maiden name of the child’s mother.

    I looked for the GRO birth indexes of the Quinn children from 1841 to 1871 at the GRO website at: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp

    I located five birth indexes. Four of the indexes spell the maiden name of the child’s mother as McPartland. One index spells her name, Partland. The first name of the mother is not recorded in the indexes. The father’s name is not recorded in the indexes either.

    Not all the children were recorded as being born in London.

    Below are the GRO indexes of the five Quinn births in chronological order, including the births for Eliza, James, and Edward Quinn. You had mentioned you were looking for the birth of James Quinn:

    Name: QUINN, MARY
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCPARTLAND
    GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in SAINT LUKE MIDDLESEX
    Volume 02 Page 279

    Name: QUINN, ELIZA
    Mother's Maiden Surname: PARTLAND
    GRO Reference: 1848 D Quarter in EAST LONDON UNION
    Volume 02 Page 224

    Name: QUINN, PETER
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCPARTLAND
    GRO Reference: 1853 D Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND UNION
    Volume 02B Page 373

    Name: QUINN, JAMES
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCPARTLAND
    GRO Reference: 1856 S Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND
    Volume 02B Page 376

    Name: QUINN, EDWARD
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCPARTLAND
    GRO Reference: 1859 S Quarter in STEPNEY
    Volume 01C Page 443
    ----

    You will need to order the full birth records from the GRO to confirm that the name of the father of the children is Peter, and that their mother’s first name is Mary. Their full birth records should also tell you where they were born and what their father’s occupation was.

    The indexes above show that three of the births were recorded in London area Registration Districts, and two in Portsea, which is in Hampshire.

    Portsea Island in Hampshire, was, and is, the home of one of the UK’s naval bases. I am wondering if Peter and his family moved from London to Portsea, Hampshire for a time, where Peter may have employed with either the Royal Navy or had worked in the Merchant Seaman’s trade.

    The Online ordering service for the GRO is https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp

    You can register with the GRO to access the birth indexes. Once you access the birth indexes you can then order the individual birth indexes online.

    The cost for a full birth or death certificate from the GRO is £11.00, which you can pay with a credit card. You will need to provide the GRO reference for the births. Without the GRO reference, the cost is £14.00.

    For example, the reference from the index for Edward Quinn is the September quarter 1859, Stepney Registration District, Volume 01C, Page 443.

    If three of the Quinn children had died before 1861, it can be a challenge to identify them in the GRO death indexes. The death indexes provide the surname and first name of the person, the age at death; the year of death, the quarter of the year in which the death took place, and the volume and page number where the full GRO death record can be found. The indexes do not provide the names of the parents.

    Eliza Quinn was recorded with her parents in the 1851 census. She and her brother Edward were recorded in the 1861 census. The other three children, Mary, Peter, and James, were not in the household with their parents in the 1851 or 1861 census. The 1851 census is also attached to this reply.

    Mary would have been 11 years old in 1851, and so should have been in the household with her parents, unless she had died, had been living in a school, or perhaps in another household as a visitor.

    I looked for Mary’s death index in the GRO registers and found one very good possibility. The death of a Mary Quinn was recorded in the Saint Luke Middlesex Registration District in the September quarter of 1844.

    Mary’s birth, as you saw above, was also recorded in the Saint Luke Middlesex Registration District in the September quarter of 1844.

    The death index shows Mary’s age was 0, and so this index may possibly refer to Peter and Mary’s daughter.

    See the death index:

    Name: QUINN, MARY
    Age at Death (in years): 0
    GRO Reference: 1844 S Quarter in SAINT LUKE MIDDLESEX
    Volume 02 Page 216
    ----____

    I also looked for a death index for Peter Quinn, whose birth was recorded in the Portsea Island Union Registration District in the December quarter of 1853.

    I found what could be Peter’s GRO death index. His death was recorded in the Portsea Island Registration District in the March quarter of 1857. His age at death was 3. The index is below:

    Name: QUINN, PETER
    Age at Death (in years): 3
    GRO Reference: 1857 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND
    Volume 02B Page 257
    ----

    The next death index I looked for was for James Quinn, whose birth was recorded in the Portsea Island Registration District in the September quarter of 1856.

    I didn’t find his death index recorded in the Portsea Registration District between 1856 and the 1861 census. There is a death index for a James Quinn however, recorded in the St. Luke, London Registration District for the September quarter of 1858. At the time of death he was 1 year old. As you saw above, Mary Quinn’s birth was recorded in the St. Luke Registration District in 1844.

    The GRO death index for James is below;

    Name: QUINN, JAMES
    Age at Death: 1
    GRO Reference: 1858 S Quarter in ST LUKE CHELSEA
    Volume 01A Page 103
    ----

    There is no way to tell if this death index is for Peter and Mary’s son. You would have to order the full death record to see if the names of his father Peter or mother Mary are recorded as informants who reported James’s death to the St. Luke, Chelsea registrar. If reported by his father, James’s death record may also provide the occupation of his father.

    Concerning the births of Peter and James, I am wondering why their parents had moved to Portsea, from London.

    The question is, did Peter find employment with the Royal Navy or the Merchant Marine Service in Portsea?

    By 1859 the family were back in London. Their son Edward’s birth was recorded in the Stepney, London Registration District in the September quarter of 1859.

    Two years later the 1861 census shows that Peter was a 45 year old “Licensed Hawker,” born in Ireland. His wife Mary was 40 years old and also born in Ireland. Their two children are 13 year old Eliza and 2 year old Edward, both born in Middlesex.

    As you know, Peter Jr. and James are not in the household with their parents and siblings in the 1861 census.

    THE QUINN AND MCPARTLAN MARRIAGE

    Your records show that Peter Quinn and Mary McPartlan were married in London in 1841. I don’t know if you have their church marriage record, their civil registration marriage record, or an index or transcription of their marriage.

    I found their individual marriage indexes at Ancestry.com’s collection, “London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938.” They were married in the St Giles Without Cripplegate Church of England, City of London, on 27 July 1841. The index for Peter Quinn shows his father was John Quinn. The index for Mary “Macfarland” shows her father was Thomas Macfarland. See the indexes below:

    London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938

    Name: Peter Quinn
    Gender: Male
    Record Type: Marriage
    Marriage Date: 27 Jul 1841
    Marriage Place: St Giles Without Cripplegate, City of London, England
    Father: John Quinn
    Spouse: Mary Macfarland
    Register Type: Parish Register

    Source Citation
    London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; London Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: P69/Gis/A/01/Ms 6422/2

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
    ----

    London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938

    Name: Mary Macfarland
    Gender: Female
    Record Type: Marriage
    Marriage Date: 27 Jul 1841
    Marriage Place: St Giles Without Cripplegate, City of London, England
    Father: Thomas Macfarland
    Spouse: Peter Quinn
    Register Type: Parish Register

    Source Citation
    London Metropolitan Archives; London, England; London Church of England Parish Registers; Reference Number: P69/Gis/A/01/Ms 6422/2

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2010.
    ----

    A copy of the original marriage record, attached to this reply, shows that it was the clergyman who recorded Mary’s maiden name as MacFarland. Mary signed the marriage register in her own handwriting, but spelled her maiden name, “McPartlan,” which the spelling you have for her.

    The marriage record further shows that Peter and Mary were of
    “full” age when they married, which means 21 years of age or older. Peter had been a bachelor and Mary a spinster, signifying neither had been previously married. Peter’s occupation is “Draper.” A draper was a wholesaler or a retailer who sold cotton fabrics, linens, draperies, etc.

    The marriage record also shows that Peter’s residence at the time of marriage was “London Wall,” and that his father was John Quinn, a “Farmer.”

    No occupation is recorded for Mary. Her residence at the time of marriage was Long Lane. Her father is Thomas “McFarland,” a “Farmer.”

    The handwriting in the marriage record is a little sketchy, but it looks like the clergyman who married Peter and Mary was Robert Tynan, Ach. The initials “Ach” could stand for “Archdeacon,” though I can’t be completely sure about that.

    The witnesses to the marriage were James Graham and Ann McDaniel. Ann McDaniel signed the marriage register with “x her mark,” because she could not write.

    The groom Peter Quinn signed his name just above Mary’s.

    One significant bit of information revealed by the marriage record is that Peter and Marry were married in what at that time was the established Church of England.

    A Google Map shows that there are two streets in London named Long Lane. One is north of the Thames River and one is south of the Thames River. However, the Long Lane north of the Thames is closest to London Wall, and this is where Peter was living when the marriage took place in 1841. See the Google Map at: https://rebrand.ly/4ttcxl9

    This link from Google Street View shows London Wall heading toward Long Lane north of the Thames River: https://rebrand.ly/q4as6fd

    The following Google Street View shows Long Lane north of the Thames River: https://rebrand.ly/4v67hh8

    The St. Giles Cripplegate Without Church of England was and is located in Fore Street, Dublin. This church is one of the older surviving churches in London and has a very interesting history, which you can read about at the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Giles-without-Cripplegate

    A Google Map shows that the church in Fore Street is between Long Lane to the northwest and London Wall to the southeast: https://rebrand.ly/0zf9pcz

    IRISH RECORDS

    The equivalent of the Church of England in Ireland, is the Church of Ireland. Unfortunately, almost half of the Church of Ireland parish registers were destroyed in a fire at the Four Courts Building, Dublin, during the Irish Civil War in 1922. Some Church of Ireland parishes retained copies of their own registers, but others didn’t.

    According to the ireland.anglican.org website’s database, “The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers,” the Forkhill Church of Ireland, Armagh, did have parish registers of baptism from 1823-1887, marriages from 1823-1845, and deaths from 1824-1887, but that these registers were destroyed in the Four Courts Fire.

    The “List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers” is a very large, colour-coded file, which you can access at: https://rebrand.ly/bzltioi

    You’ll see the Forkhill registers are colour coded grey, which means they were, “LOST - Registers for this parish were in PROI in 1922 and were thus not saved.”

    PROI is the Public Records Office of Ireland, which is located in Dublin. At the time that Peter Quinn and Mary McPartlan were born, Ireland was all one country under English rule.

    Some later Forkhill, Armgh marriage registers are available at the RootsIreland subscription website, but are for the years 1845 to 1921. Even if these marriage registers did not burn in the Four Courts Fire in 1922, they would have been too late in time to have recorded the marriage of Peter Quinn’s father and mother.

    But, “The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers,” shows that the Dundalk Church of Ireland parish registers did survive the fire.

    The register of baptisms span the years 1729-1875. Marriage are from 1755-1845, and burials from 1727-1875.

    I checked with RootsIreland but found they do not have transcribed any Church of Ireland Parish registers for County Louth, only Catholic Parish registers, including Catholic registers for Dundalk.

    According to “The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers,” the registers are held locally. The Church of Ireland in Dundalk is the Church of St. Nicholas, also known as the “Green Church.”

    The church has its own website, and also has a History link which takes you to transcriptions of the St. Nicholas Parish registers. But the transcriptions’ link failed to download.

    The homepage for the St. Nicholas Church can be found at: https://www.stnicholas-greenchurchdundalk.com/

    The History portion of the website where the parish registers are supposed to be transcribed is comprised of two links. The first is for St. Nicholas Parish registers of baptisms from 1729 to 1803, marriages from 1750 to 1803, and burials from 1727 to 1803. This page can be accessed at:
    https://www.stnicholas-greenchurchdundalk.com/1--dundalk-baptisms-marri…

    The second link is supposed to provide transcriptions for St. Nicholas baptisms from 1803 to 1841, marriages from 1803 to 1828, and burials from 1803 to 1844. See:
    https://www.stnicholas-greenchurchdundalk.com/2--dundalk-baptisms-marri…

    I contacted Trevor Patterson, the Secretary, of the Dundalk Select Vestry, St Nicholas's Church, Dundalk, who kindly searched the St. Nicholas baptism, marriage, and burial registers for the McPartlan/McPartland name, but did not find the surname in any of the baptism or marriage registers for the St. Nicholas Church.

    Don, at this point I’d like to bring up a possibility for you to consider, that Peter Quinn or Mary McPartlan, or both, were baptized Catholic when they were born in County Armagh circa 1816, and County Louth circa 1821.

    There is evidence to indicate this for Mary, as I found the Dundalk Catholic Parish baptism for a Mary McPartland, daughter of Thomas McPartland and Mary Crawly at Ancestry.com. Her baptism took place on 9 November 1818. See the transcription of the baptism below:

    Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915

    Name: Mary McPartland
    Baptism Age: 0
    Event Type: Baptism
    Birth Date: 1818
    Baptism Date: 9 Nov 1818
    Baptism Place: Dundalk, Louth, Ireland
    Diocese: Armagh
    Father: Thos McPartland
    Mother: Mary Crawley

    Source Citation
    National Library of Ireland; Dublin, Ireland; Irish Catholic Parish Registers; Microfilm Number: Microfilm 05595 / 01

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2016.
    ----

    I’ve attached a copy of the original Dundalk baptism entry for Mary to this reply. There are two facing pages of the register. Mary’s baptism can be found on the right-hand page, second entry up from the bottom.

    The handwriting can be a challenge to read. Mary’s godfather appears to be James. His last name could be Lennon. The first name of the godmother is Margaret, but I couldn’t make out her last name.

    In the right margin of the baptism record, there is a word that is difficult to make out. This word is the townland where Mary and her parents were living at the time of the baptism. The word looks like it could be “Marches,” or “Marshes.”

    I hadn't heard of a place in County Louth named Marches or Marshes, and so I wanted to see if there is, or was such a place in County Louth near Dundalk Town. I found that there is in the IreAtlas Townland Database. The IreAtlas shows the existence of Marsh North, Marsh South, Marshes Lower, and Marshes Upper: https://rebrand.ly/u2ds2w5

    A Google Map shows the locations of Marsh North, Marsh South, Marshes Lower, and Marshes Upper. These locations are suburbs of Dundalk, north, east, and south of the town center : https://rebrand.ly/xiq6uxz

    I think the Dundalk Catholic baptism for Mary McPartland, daughter of Thomas McPartland and Mary Crawley, is your ancestor.

    Also at Ancestry.com I found the baptism for a child named “Laue” McParkland, whose parents are Thos McPartland and Margt Crawly. Laue is probably the abbreviation for Lawrence. He was baptized in the Dundalk Catholic Parish on 20 March 1815. The residence of Laue and his parents is “Up Merches,” which would be a reference to Marshes Upper.

    Name: Laue McParkland
    Baptism Age: 0
    Event Type: Baptism
    Birth Date: 1815
    Baptism Date: 20 Mar 1815
    Baptism Place: Dundalk, Louth, Ireland
    Residence Place: Up Merches
    Diocese: Armagh
    Father: Thos McParkland
    Mother: Margt Crawly

    Source Citation
    National Library of Ireland; Dublin, Ireland; Irish Catholic Parish Registers; Microfilm Number: Microfilm 05595 / 01

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2016.
    ----

    Thomas McPartland’s parents and Mary McPartland’s parents may actually refer to the same father and mother, even though the first name of Thomas’s mother is recorded as Margaret, and Mary’s mother recorded as Mary.

    A copy of the original baptism record for Lawrence is attached to this reply. The baptism is on the right-hand page of the register, 8th entry up from the bottom.

    In magnifying the page, you can see the child’s name is abbreviated as “Law,” for Lawrence, rather than “Laue.”

    The name of Lawrence’s godfather is Thomas Gartland. The godmother is Elizabeth Quigley. To the right of Elizabeth Quigley’s name is what looks like “Up Merches,” which as mentioned earlier, would be Marshes Upper.

    THE TITHE APPLOTMENT BOOKS

    In his reply of 12 February 2023, Elwyn had mentioned the Tithe Applotment Books in reference to Quinns in the parish of Forkhill, County Armagh.

    I looked for Thomas McPartland to see if he was recorded in the Tithe Applotment Books in Marshes Upper, County Louth. I found that he was. Also recorded is a farmer named Thomas Crawley. Thomas Crawley was likely related to Mary McPartland, whose mother was Mary Crawley. The Tithe Applotments were recorded for Marshes Upper in 1833.

    For a copy of the original Tithe Applotment Book entries for several farmers in Marshes Upper, go to the National Archives of Ireland link at:
    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004587436/00…

    Thomas Crawley is the 12th Occupier down the page. Thomas McPartland is the 13th Occupier, just below Thomas Crawley.

    The Tithe Applotment Books show that Thomas Crawley farmed 5 acres of “Arable” land valued at 2 Pounds an acre. The right page of the tithe book shows his tithes were 15 Shillings and 2 Pence.

    Thomas McPartland held over 4 acres of arable land valued at 2 Pounds and acre. His tithes were 14 Shillings and 8 Pence.

    For a comprehensive explanation about the Tithe Applotment Books, go to the following links from the National Archives of Ireland link:

    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/home.jsp
    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/about.jsp
    http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/search/tab/aboutmore.jsp

    GRIFFITHS VALUATION

    I now wanted to see if I could find the McPartlan surname recorded in Marshes Upper in an Irish Property Tax record called Griffiths Valuation.

    Griffiths Valuation was enumerated in the 32 counties of Ireland between 1847 and 1864. The valuation for Dundalk and surrounding townlands in the Civil Parish of Dundalk was completed by the year 1854.

    Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman collecting the rent for the owner. This middleman was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

    You can access Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the Ask About Ireland website link at: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

    Griffiths Valuation for Patrick McPartland Marshes Upper is attached to this reply. You can find the entry for him at letter/number 31a. This is a map reference number showing the location of Patrick’s lease in Marches Upper on a map that accompanied Griffiths Valuation.

    Griffiths Valuation shows that Patrick leased a house, office and over 8 acres of land from an Immediate Lessor named William A. Mathews. The land was valued at 10 Pounds. The house and office were valued at 1 Pound. The total valuation for Patrick’s lease was 11 Pounds. He would have paid a percentage of this amount toward the property tax.

    An office in Griffiths Valuation could refer to a barn, stable, blacksmith shop, piggery, etc.

    Also attached to this reply is the Griffiths Valuation map for Marshes Upper. You’ll see Marshes Upper in block letters going across the top of the map. Map reference 31 is at the bottom center of the map. This is where Patrick’s lease was.

    I didn’t find any Crawley’s recorded in Marshes Upper in Griffiths Valuation.

    BACK TO ENGLAND

    In going over birth, marriage and death records at Ancestry.com for Peter and Mary Quinn in England, I came across the marriage record for the person I believe to be their son Edward.

    Edward Quinn and Elizabeth Catherine McNamee were married in the Holy Cross, Liverpool Catholic Church on 25 November 1880. First names in the marriage record are in Latin. Edward’s name is Eduardum. His wife is Elizabetham Catharinam Mcnamee. Edward’s parents are Petri Quinn and Maria Quinn.

    See the marriage transcription below:

    Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933

    Name Eduardum Quinn
    Marriage Date 25 Nov 1880
    Marriage Place Holy Cross, Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Father Petri Quinn
    Mother Maria Quinn
    Spouse Elizabetham Catharinam Mcnamee

    Citation information Detail
    Liverpool Record Office; Liverpool, England; Liverpool Catholic Parish Registers; Reference Number: 282 HOL/2/1

    Source information
    Title Liverpool, England, Catholic Marriages, 1754-1933
    ----

    Ancestry.com also has a copy of the original marriage record for Edward and Elizabeth, which gives further information showing that at the time of marriage Edward was a resident of 34 Summer Seat. At least, it looks like Summer Seat, not Summer Street. Elizabeth was a resident of what looks like 7c Marlborough Street. I believe Summer Seat and Marlborough Street refer to locations in Liverpool.

    One of the witnesses to the marriage was Petro (Peter) White of 7c 2a Marlborough Street. The second witness is Maria Catherina Owens, of what looks like 11 and 13 Marybone Street.

    The priest who married Edward and Elizabeth was Daniel J. Madden.

    A copy of the Holy Cross Catholic Church marriage record is attached to this reply. The marriage for Edward and Elizabeth is the 3rd entry down from the top of the register.

    At Google Maps I actually found Summer “Seat,” Marlborough Street, and Marybone Street, where the witness Maria Catherine Owens was living. The map shows that Marlborough Street T junctions into Marybone Street, and that both are a half mile south of Summer Seat: https://rebrand.ly/ymf8joz

    Unfortunately, the Holy Cross Catholic Church in Liverpool no longer exists. It was severely damaged during the German blitz over the city in 1940. The church was located in Great Crosshall Street. This Google Map shows that Great Crosshall Street is just south of Marlborough Street and Marybone Street: https://rebrand.ly/akhzzir

    The church was rebuilt and opened for church service in 1954, but was later demolished. You can read about the history of the church at the www.omiworld.org website link at:
    https://www.omiworld.org/lemma/liverpool-holy-cross-parish-1850-2001/

    In the Google Map at the following link you’ll be looking down Great Crosshall Street. To the right, Standish Street runs into Great Crosshall Street. The Holy Cross Church may have stood to the left of Crosshall Street where you see the construction fence: https://rebrand.ly/eadp1ts

    A U.S. RECORD

    From information you provided in your post to Ireland Reaching Out I found the marriage transcription for Edward and Elizabeth Quinn’s son Peter, at the free FamilySearch website.

    Peter and Elizabeth Shevlin were married in Manhattan, New York on 21 April 1908. Peter’s father is Edward Quinn. The first name of his mother is Elizabeth. Her last name is recorded as “McNamel,” which I take to be a transcription error for McNamee.

    The marriage record further shows that Peter was 26 years old with an estimated birth year of 1882. He was born in England.

    Elizabeth Shevlin was born in New York and was 22 years old with an estimated birth year of 1886. Her parents are John Shevlin and Annie Smith.

    The transcription does not record which church the couple were married in. See the transcription below:

    Marriage • New York, New York City Marriage Records, 1829-1938

    Name Peter Quinn
    Sex Male
    Age 26
    Birth Year (Estimated) 1882
    Birthplace England
    Marital Status Single
    Race White
    Father's Name Edward Quinn
    Father's Sex Male
    Mother's Name Eliz. McNamel
    Mother's Sex Female
    Spouse's Name Eliz. Shevlin
    Spouse's Sex Female
    Spouse's Age 22
    Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1886
    Spouse's Birthplace New York City
    Spouse's Marital Status Single
    Spouse's Race White
    Spouse's Father's Name John Shevlin
    Spouse's Father's Sex Male
    Spouse's Mother's Name Annie Smith
    Marriage Date 21 Apr 1908
    Marriage Place Manhattan, New York City, New York, United States
    Marriage Place Manhattan, New York
    Event Type Marriage
    Source Details cn 8401

    Source: "New York, New York City Marriage Records, 1829-1938", database, FamilySearch (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:24HC-QJ9 : 20 August 2022), Peter Quinn and Eliz. Shevlin, 1908.
    ----

    Knowing that Peter Quinn married in New York in 1908 at the age of 26, I looked for his birth index at the aforementioned GRO website.

    At 26 years of age in 1908, Peter would have been born in 1882. I found the GRO index, showing that Peter’s birth was recorded in the Middlesbrough Registration District in the March quarter of 1882. The index shows his mother’s maiden name is McNamee:

    Name: QUINN, PETER
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCNAMEE
    GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH
    Volume 09D Page 577
    ----

    I had no idea where the Middlesbrough Registration District was located. I didn’t think it was a district in or around Liverpool, and so I went to the ukbmd.org website link and found it was located in the North Ridings of Yorkshire. See: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/middlesbrough.html

    This prompted me to look for Edward and Elizabeth Quinn in the 1881 census to see if they were still in Liverpool, or if they had moved to Yorkshire by the time the 1881 census was enumerated on 3 April of that year. Edward and Elizabeth had married on 25 November 1880.

    I found them in the 1881census in North Street, Normanby, Middlesbrough Civil Registration District, Yorkshire. See the census index below from Ancestry.com for their residence in the 1881 census:

    Civil Parish: Normanby in Middlesbrough
    County/Island: Yorkshire
    Country: England
    Street Address: North St
    Registration District: Middlesbrough
    ED, institution, or vessel: 8
    Piece: 4859
    Folio: 86
    Page Number: 17

    Source Citation
    Class: RG11; Piece: 4859; Folio: 86; Page: 17; GSU roll: 1342170

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. 1881 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2004.
    ----

    A copy of the original census, attached to this reply, shows that Edward is 23 years old and employed as an “Ironworker.” His birthplace was London. His GRO birth index shows his birth was recorded in the Stepney Registration District, London.

    Elizabeth is 22 years old. No occupation is recorded for her. Her birthplace was Liverpool.

    A Google Map shows that Edward and Elizabeth moved clear across the England from Liverpool to Normanby, Yorkshire, a distance of over 145 miles: https://rebrand.ly/m6u3imd

    By the 1891 census Edward, Elizabeth Quinn were back in Lancashire, but not Liverpool. The census shows they were in Litherland, Lancashire, West Derby Registration District. See the location index below from Ancestry.com:

    Civil parish: Litherland
    Residence Place: Litherland, Lancashire, England
    Registration district: West Derby
    Sub registration district: Litherland
    ED, Institution or Vessel: 4
    Piece: 2984
    Folio: 98

    Source Citation
    The National Archives of the UK (TNA); Kew, Surrey, England; Census Returns of England and Wales, 1891; Class: RG12; Piece: 2984; Folio: 98; Page: 18; GSU roll: 6098094

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. 1891 England Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005.
    ----

    A copy of the original 1891 census from Ancestry.com attached to this reply, shows the Quinn family residing in 45 Laughton Road. Edward is shown to be 31 years old, employed “Sea Faring Man.” He was born in London. His wife Elizabeth is 32 years old and born in Liverpool. Their son Peter is a 9 year old “Scholar,” born in South Bank, Yorkshire.

    Edward and Elizabeth also have two other children in the household. They are 7 year old Thomas Edward Quinn, a “Scholar” born in South Bank, Yorkshire, and 5 year old Elizabeth Quinn, a “Scholar,” also born in South Bank, Yorkshire.

    I was surprised to see that Edward changed occupations from Ironworker to Seafaring Man.

    A Google Map shows that South Bank, Yorkshire is 50 and a half miles south of Normanby by the shortest route: https://rebrand.ly/2bgijtz

    The following Google Map shows the route form Normanby, to Litherland, just north of Liverpool: https://rebrand.ly/e6ga6ks

    It was a bit of a challenge to locate the GRO birth indexes for Thomas Edward Quinn and Elizabeth C. (Catherine) Quinn, as the maiden name of their mother was not transcribed as McNamee.

    The index for Thomas Edward Quinn shows his birth was recorded in the Middlesbrough Registration District in the June quarter of 1883. His mother’s maiden name is transcribed as, McMamoe.”

    Name: QUINN, THOMAS EDWARD
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCMAMOE
    GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in MIDDLESBROUGH
    Volume 09D Page 639
    ----

    The GRO index for Elizabeth Catherine Quinn shows her birth recorded in the West Derby (Lancashire) Registration District in the September quarter of 1885. Her mother’s maiden name is transcribed as, “McNama.”

    Name: QUINN, ELIZABETH CATHERINE
    Mother's Maiden Surname: MCNAMA
    GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in WEST DERBY
    Volume 08B Page 441
    ----

    At Ancestry.com I found that 32 year old Edward Quinn was recorded as a crew member of the fishing boat, Ship Servia, in 1891. His birthplace was London. See the index:

    Liverpool, England, Crew Lists 1861-1919

    Name: Edwd Quinn
    Age: 32
    Birth Year: 1859
    Birth Place: London
    Event Date: 1891
    Port of Registry: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
    Ship Name: Servia
    Official Number: 84172
    Reference Number: 387CRE/762

    Source Information
    Ancestry.com. Liverpool, England, Crew Lists 1861-1919 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014. This collection was indexed by Ancestry World Archives Project contributors.

    Original data: Crew lists. 387 CRE. Liverpool Record Office, Liverpool, England.

    Crew lists (fishing boats). 387 FIS. Liverpool Record Office, Liverpool, England.
    ----

    A copy of the original Ship Servia Crew List is attached to this reply. Edward is number 87 in the list. The left page of the crew list which gives the further information that Edward signed the crew list on 21 April 1891 in Liverpool at 7 am. The right page of the crew list shows his weekly wage was £5.00.

    The right hand page also shows that Edward and other crew members were discharged from the ship in Liverpool on 8 May 1891. Edward’s balance of wages paid upon discharge was £5.1.4, that is, 5 Pounds, 1 Pence, and 4 shillings.

    CONNCLUSION

    Don, you have a very interesting family history that spans three countries…Ireland, England, and the United States.

    Indications are that Mary McPartlan was baptized Catholic, but I don’t know if Peter Quinn was baptized Catholic or Anglican Church of Ireland, which is equivalent to the Church of England.

    But, their son Edward was married in the Catholic Church, which is an indication that Edward was raised Catholic, or that, if he belonged to the Church of England, he married in a Catholic Church because Elizabeth McNamee was Catholic.

    With Kind Regards,

    Dave Boylan

    SOURCES

    Ancestry.com
    General Register Office (GRO) England
    Google Maps
    Google Street Views
    Wikipedia
    ireland.anglican.org: The List of Church of Ireland Parish Registers
    RootsIreland
    St. Nicholas Church, Dundalk: https://www.stnicholas-greenchurchdundalk.com/
    Trevor Patterson, Secretary, Dundalk Select Vestry, St Nicholas's Church, Dundalk
    IreAtlas Townland Database
    National Archives of Ireland: Tithe Applotment Books:
    Ask about Ireland: Griffths Valuation
    www.omiworld.org
    FamilySearch

    davepat

    Saturday 18th Feb 2023, 11:57PM

Post Reply