McCANNS of FORKHILL, CO ARMAGH

Nicky,

You ask whether it was normal for families across the border to marry each other. In 1874 there was no border, it was all just the one country, so that wouldn?t have been a consideration. But even today people routinely marry from either sides of the post 1922 border, and so I think I can say it?s never been a significant consideration for any prospective bride & groom.

You say that John McCann was born in 1851, registered in Forkhill. What?s the source of that information?

Statutory birth registration only started in 1864 in Ireland so you won?t get a birth certificate for him. You might however find his baptism. Forkhill RC?s records start in 1845 so that?s positive. There?s a copy of the parish records on-line on the rootsireland site (subscription to view) or you can view other copies at PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast or the National Library in Dublin.

Do you have a copy of the 1874 marriage certificate? If not, I would get one as it should confirm his father?s name and occupation. It should also give you John McCann?s address at the time of the marriage.

If you let me know the details from the marriage certificate, I?ll see if I can help you trace the family in Griffiths Valuation or the revaluation records.

Elwyn

Hi Elwyn

Thanks for your prompt reply and information. The Forkhill info came from an enquiry by my husband's aunt to Armagh Ancestry some while ago. We think/know John came from Armagh from subsequent census entries. They came back with 13 possible entries for his baptism of which the most likely is an entry from the Forkhill Catholic Parish Registers. Others were from Derrynoose, Shankhill, Upper Killeavy, Ballymore, Ballymacnab, Drumcree & Armagh. It is a guess but Forkhill is very close to Dungooly so it seemed the most likely way Mary and John may have met so it is the one I am pusuing for the moment.

Entry transcript reads 17/4/1851 John. Father: John McCann Mother: Mary McCann. Sponsors: Cornelius Rafferty Bridget McNeill

Will the actual certificate give me any more info do you know? I will certainly order it if so and/or if it turns out to be the correct one.

I found the marriage on rootsireland. It is the only one I can find for the two names within the date range and certainly fits with the info I hold on Mary which states Dungooly on one of the census returns as her place of birth. I have the Church Marriage record as follows:

Date of Marriage: 10 Dec 1874

Parish / District: FAUGHART County: County Louth

Husband: John McCann

Address: BLANK

Denomination: Roman Catholic

Occupation: BLANK

Age: BLANK

Status: Not Married

Husband's Father: McCann

(remaining fields blank)

Husband's Mother:

(all fields blank)

Wife: Mary Kelly

Address: BLANK

Denomination: Roman Catholic

Occupation: Blank

Age: Blank

Status: Not Married

Wife's Father: Kelly

(remaining fields blank)

Wife's Mother

(all fields blank)

Witness 1

Peter McShane

Witness 2

Catherine Kelly  

It is very frustrating that so many of the fields are blank!

Any further help or advice you may be able to give would be very gratefully received.

Thank you again, Nicky   

Nicky,

Without some record of John?s father?s name, you are really guessing who he is.

The civil marriage certificate would normally give a lot more information than is contained in an RC marriage certificate. Generally in the 1800s on an RC marriage cert, all you get is the couples names and their 2 witnesses, whereas the accompanying civil certificate contains occupations, addresses, the couples previous marital statuses, father?s names and occupations. (If you have seen an English marriage certificate then, an Irish one from the 1870s was exactly the same).

The problem is that I can?t find the civil certificate for this marriage in the statutory records.  Faughart falls within the Dundalk civil registration area.  There was only one Mary Kelly marriage registered in Dundalk in 1874 and she appears to have married either a John Cluskey or a Nicholas Neary. (Dundalk 1874 Volume 7, page 701). Sometimes priests failed to pass the details to the civil authorities (though it was supposed to be mandatory) and perhaps that is what has happened in this case. In which case, sadly, you?ll not be able to locate some fairly essential information. The other possibility is that the marriage has been misfiled in the GRO indexes.

I think what I would do is write to GRO Roscommon (HQ for births, deaths & marriages) and tell them you are looking for a copy of the civil marriage certificate. Tell them that you have located the church record (and give them the details you have) and say you can?t find the civil copy. They will then search the old registers manually to see if it is there (and has been overlooked or the names mis-spelled). If they find it, a photocopy costs ?4.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

You have to download and print off the form. Then either post or fax it back to them. You can?t e-mail it to them. However if you want them to e-mail the cert to back to you, they will do that, so tick the relevant box.

Just put an accompanying letter in with the application, explaining that you can?t find the marriage in the civil indexes, but that you know it took place because you have the church details.

Elwyn

Thank you Elwyn for your explanation and advice. Roger (on the Faughart site) has also been in touch to say he can find no record of a civil record. I will certainly contact GRO Roscommon as you suggest. 

Whilst I would love to believe that my guesses are correct I am really no further until I have some proof!

Thanks again, Nicky