Thomas Cartmill marries Roseanne McMahon 1853

Linda,

Malleletry is also spelled Mullaletragh. Griffiths Valuation for 1864 lists a Thomas Cartmill in that townland. He had plot 20 which was a house and a total of just over 14 acres (in 2 separate pieces of land). So, assuming it’s the right family, he was able to do some farming as well as masonry work. His landlord was Louisa Bacon.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

The revaluation records show the property remaining in Thomas’s name until 1887 when it changes to Lydia (his widow perhaps) and then in 1892 to another Thomas. It remains in that Thomas’s name until 1929 when that series of records stops. He purchased outright ownership of the property in 1922 under the Land Act. (A scheme which gave government mortgages to enable farmers buy their land).

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/proni

Household in 1901:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Richhill/Mullaletragh/1018910/

and in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Rich_Hill/Mullaletragh/330409/

Probate abstract (full will held in paper format in PRONI):

Cartmell Thomas of Mullaletragh county Armagh farmer died 18 April 1934 Probate Belfast 4 February to William John Lamb and Isaac Lamb farmers. Effects £63 5s.

There’s a death for a Thos Cartwell, registered in Armagh 3.1.1886 aged 76. That might be the first Thomas’s death. You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate.

The tithe applotment records for 1833 show a David Cartmill farming in the townland then.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/armagh/tithe-applotments/kilmore-parish.php#.VwYZAqt9eg0

It’s not a big townland and this is the only Cartmill household that appears in it’s records so presumably it must be part of your family. The farm today is on the Tullygarden Rd, just west of Portadown. You probably need to go through Kilmore Church of Ireland parish records to work out how all these people are connected.

Looking at Ballyleny in Griffiths, the only McMahon household was that of an Alexander who had a weaver’s cottage. It was plot 3e and was on Thomas Walker’s farm. You can use the revaluation records to see how long he lived there, and then search for his death certificate.

Dear Elwyn, I'm so sorry not to have retrurned to the site before this to see your comprehensive reply.  I have been bogged down in work issues and have not been thinking about my family tree.  Can you tell me if the Kilmore parish records have been digitised?  Where might I be able to find them?

Kind regards,

Linda

On the valuations of tenements it shows Thomas Cartmill on
20A. a
B

Now on the map there are three different 20's
20
20A
20B

So which one would Thomas have actually lived.?
Also it says House, Office and Land, so what actually would office mean?

There are several Church of Ireland churches within that parish. Kilmore itself has records from 1789 (with gaps). Mullavilly from 1821, Richhill’s earliest records were destroyed in the 1922 fire & St Saviours has records from 1858. You might find some of those records on rootsireland (subscription). Otherwise go to PRONI (the public record office in Belfast). They have the surviving records on microfilm.

Regarding Griffiths, house offices and land meant that it was a farm with outbuildings and land. In this case the land comprised plot  20a which was 12 acres, 3 roods and 30 perches, plus plot 20b which was 1 acre, 3 roods and 15 perches. (40 perches in a rood and 4 roods in an acre). In addition to farming that land, Thomas had 2 agricultural labourers cottages on his farm sublet to tenants named Troughton & Nelson respectively. The farm itself was on 20a or 20b. The Griffiths map should show you exactly where.

Elwyn

Thank you so much, how can we match it to a current map?

My sister and I are getting excited about seeing where our great grandparents lived and where married. As per their marriage certificate it says Kilmore, church of Kilmore. So I'm presuming that is the church actually at Kilmore.

Thanks again Maree

Maree,

The Griffiths site has a slider bar that allows you to overlay a modern map on the 1860s map. It’s in the top rh corner of the screen.

Looking at the contemporaneous map, 20a and 20b are separated by about 300 yards. 20a is where the farmhouse was (I don’t know if it’s still there today but you could look on Google earth and find out that way). As I mentioned previously, the location is on the north side of the Tullygarden Rd. It’s not far from the junction with the Crewcatt Rd.

Thanks Elwyn

Thanks Elwyn

Thanks Elwyn

Thanks Elwyn.  I will look into Roots Ireland holdings.  My husband and I visited Kilmore church in 1986 and took a photo of the page of teh weedding enty for RoseAnne and Thomas.  It was only a flying visit, I was ajsut learning about how to search for ancestors and I didn't look further in the book :-(.  Will send a copy on my photos to Maree to p[repare them for their trip!

Hi Elwyn

Thanks so much for your help, just two more things at this stage, is that 20a within the 20A portion, it is really hard to read?
Also I would like to find out who was living in portion 5 in Drummard (Jones) next to Kilmore as it is called Field Mount and that is what they called our property when they settled here in Australia.

Thank you
Maree

Maree,

The location of the farmhouse in 20a is marked by the isolated letter “a” within the plot. There’s also an agricultural labourer’s cottage there marked by a “b” (and occupied by Mary-Jane Troughton). The farmhouse is just below and to the right of the end of the words “Stepping Stones”. Looking at the property today on Google Earth, I see a rectangular structure with a shiny silvery roof. I don’t see any sign of cars or car parking areas and so doubt it’s a private house any more. Possibly some sort of store or greenhouse. Hard to tell.  There’s a shadow cast at the north end and so it’s some sort of building, I would say. The Google earth picture is a bit grainy. I guess you’ll have to go and find out.

I had a look at the revaluation records for 1929 (the latest year the on-line records go up to). By then plot 20 was still farmed by Thomas Cartmill. However he was no longer living in the farmhouse on that plot. It was described as vacant. Thomas was now living on plot 22 which was a farmhouse, outbuildings and 13 acres. So he had evidently acquired a bit more land and moved to the other (presumably superior) farmhouse. The original farmhouse on plot 20 probably was left to collapse. I noted too that Thomas now owned both parcels of land and the buildings, having purchased them under the Land Act (ie with a Government mortgage).

Family in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Rich_Hill/Mullaletragh/330409/

Probate abstract (full will should be in PRONI):

Cartmell Thomas of Mullaletragh county Armagh farmer died 18 April 1934 Probate Belfast 4 February to William John Lamb and Isaac Lamb farmers. Effects £63 5s.

In 1864, the occupant of plot 5 in Drumard (Jones) was Thomas Walker. He had a caretakers house, outbuildings and c 31 acres of land. According to the revaluation records on the PRONI site, it remained in his name till 1881 when George Walker replaced him (suggesting Thomas had died). Then in 1883 the tenant becomes the Rev Johnston.

I found an article in the portadown times although it was 2008, with tours to St Aidan's church and saying the curate's house was situated at Field Mount. Could this have been the case in the 1800's too?

This reference indicates that the Ordnance Survey memoirs record a local clergyman (usually that meant Church of Ireland) living in Drumard Jones in the 1830s. Whether he lived at Fieldmount, I couldn’t say.

http://www.placenamesni.org/resultdetails.php?entry=10254

The OS memoirs were a survey carried out in the 1830s, parish by parish, largely for taxation purposes, and listed prominent buildings, social trends, economic information etc for each parish.

You could write to the current occupants and ask them what they know of the history of the place. It’s on the modern Kilmore Rd, Armagh BT67. But in general, I don't think curates necessarily had a house provided by the parish the way that a Minister would.

Thank you so much Elwyn.
Appreciate everything

Many thanks Elwyn for your comprehensive reply, links and explanations.  It has helped me no end uncovering some important data. 

=)

So if I was to write to the occupants of field Mount what would be the best address to get to them thanks Elwyn?
Sandra and I will be in Armagh at the end of August this year.

Sorry also what is the best way to contact the Kilmore church as well, I have already sent an email through their website about five to six weeks ago, but have had no answer. We would like to view the records!

According to this link, the person with responsibility for Kilmore is the curate in Portadown:

http://ireland.anglican.org/information/dioceses/parish/10280

You could try contacting her. Be aware that churches in Ireland get a lot of genealogical enquiries. Some do respond quickly, some respond slowly, and some don’t respond at all. (My local priest once commented that his priority was his living parishioners, not the dead ones). So can’t say if you will get a response.  If you don't, try again when you get here, by phoning. Don’t turn up unannounced. The records are often locked away for safe keeping and viewing them generally needs arranging. The Church of Ireland charges £12 an hour for viewing them.

My guide to Church of Ireland records indicates the originals are still held by the local church. However there is a microfilmed copy in PRONI (the public record office) in Belfast which is free to view, and can be viewed without prior arrangements.

You could try writing to:

The occupier

Fieldmount Farm or House

Kilmore Rd,

Craigavon,

Co. Armagh BT67 9BP

and see what happens. I can’t guarantee the name Fieldmount is still in use locally but you could try. Otherwise you may just have to make enquires on the Kilmore Rd when you are visiting.

After receiving an email from Kilmore local, Emily Cartmill, it seems that Thomas Cartmill b.24 May 1830 is only distantly related to  the Thomas Cartmill who appears in the Griffiths Land Valuations as owning land at Mallaletragh.  In fact, family stories that they are related may relate to at least 3 generations earlier i.e. to the generation of John Cartmill b~1780.

Yours in disappointment,

Linda Cartmill

Hi

I've only just found this webpage and I have Cartmills dating back to around 1771 in Ireland... 

I have 4x Great Grandparents John Cartmill and Mary Troughton, who had a daughter called Mary Cartmill (b1814) who married William Marshall. They had a daughter Mary Jane Marshall (b1839) married Patrick McDivitt and it was these two who married in Glasgow in 1857... I think moved to Edinburgh, where my great grandmother, their daughter Agnes McDivitt was born 1881. Agnes married James Cummiskey, their daughter Agnes Cummiskey (b1908) my Gran was born in Edinburgh... Eventually moving to Glasgow, where my dad, and myself were born. I still live in Glasgow.  I think I also connect to Cartmills/Cartmells in my DNA in Ancestry... 

Would love to hear from you.... 

Kindest Regards

Susan. 

Hello Susan,

Great to hear from another Cartmill descendant. Do you have any more details on where John Cartmill and wife Mary (nee Troughton) lived?  Or their daughter Mary?

Do you have a tree on Ancestry?  I do, it is public and is Parker and Cartmill ancestors.  

Looking forward to hearing from you,

Linda Cartmill