Can anyone tell me how long my ancestors have been here?

Kevin:

The 1864 Griffiths Valuation head of household listing for Loughgilly civil parish shows seven Wallace entries, five of which were in Rathcarbry. There is a John Sr. and Jr. so I'm wondering if John's father was also John.

http://www.failteromhat.com/griffiths/armagh/loughgilly.htm

I looked for civil marriage index records and found one in 1854 for a John Wallace in the Newry registration and one of the possible spouses was Margaret Clements. Did John and margaret get married that far back?

I also located an 1889 civil death index record for John Wallace which could be Robert's father.

Roger McDonnell

Hi Kevin

Further to Roger's help, there is a free website PRONI (Public Records Office Northern Ireland) on which you can do a name search.It has the following:

Index : Pre-1858 Wills and Admons Sub-Index : Armagh Diocesean Wills Surname : Wallace Forename : John Occupation : Town or Townland : Rathcarberry Parish : County : Armagh Notes : Description : PRONI Ref : Date : 12 November 1816

On ww.rootsireland.ie/ (subscription site)there is a William Wallace baptism record in Armagh in 1719 but no parish is given. The next William Wallace record is not til 1799 Drumgaw parish; parents Edward Wallace & Sara Boyd.

There are 6 Wallaces in the Tithe Applotments 1827 (free site) - all R G & all in CREGGAN parish

Col

Kevin,

I think we have all been working on this one for you:

Looking at the 1901 census for Rathcarb(e)ry, I can see 4 Wallace farms there. You would expect these people to be related to each other.

There?s one headed by Thomas aged 33, one by Margaret, widow aged 60, another by Hugh 36 and the last by John 75 & Jane 50 plus son Robert aged 38.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Tullyhappy/Rathcarbry/

If we then go back to Griffiths Valuation for the townland (1864), plot 1 was a 16 acre farm leased by John Wallace jnr, plot 2a was a 45 acre farm leased by Robert Wallace, plot 2b was a small house leased on that farm by Mary Wallace & Eliza Kinnell, plot 7 was land only (ie no farmhouse) leased by James Wallace & plot 8 was a 13 acre farm leased by John Wallace senr,

You can see where the various farms were on Griffiths maps:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch

You can also see what happened to each of those farms right up to 1929 on the revaluation records:

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/val12b.htm

I checked on PRONI?s wills site for you and found two probate files. Here?s the abstracts (summary). The files themselves are in PRONI in paper format.

Wallace John of Mill Street Newry county Down cycle agent died 19 January 1935 at Rathcarbery county Armagh Probate Belfast 25 April to Samuel Wallace farmer. Effects ?1769 0s. 2d.

Wallace Hugh John of Rathcarbry Whitecross county Armagh farmer died 2 October 1939 Administration Belfast 24 July to Julia Isabell Wallace the widow. Effects ?401 15s.

PRONI?s e-catalogue has a John Wallace of Rathcarbery listed as residing in the townland in 1819 (on the freeholder list). Likewise a Robert Wallace in 1828 & Robert & John in 1832. (Being on the freeholder list meant you had enough land to qualify for a vote at Parliamentary elections).

The tithe applotment records for the townland (c 1820s/30s) should also have a list of all the farms and who the tenants were. They are on microfilm in PRONI, Belfast. They are filed by parish. Loughgilly contains Rathcarbery.

So your family were certainly farming there in the early 1800s. You could check the Registry of Deeds records for the 1700s to see if there?s any record of them there. (That involves a visit to either PRONI in Belfast of the main registry in Dublin. In all probability, given that your family were of Presbyterian origins, the chances are that they settled in the area sometime in the 1600s (from Scotland) but whether you will be able to find records going back that far is probably not very likely.

You should be able to piece some of the families together from the information in the 1901 & 1911 censuses plus Griffiths and the revaluation records. Your next step would be to go through the church records. I see that the family were a mix of Baptists and Presbyterians. I suspect that the further back you go they were probably all Presbyterian. I would search the relevant records in the area. I can see 3 Presbyterian churches in Loughgilly. Tullyallen has baptism and marriage records that start in 1834, Mountnorris in 1810 & Kingsmills in 1842. Kingsmills baptism are not on-line anywhere so far as I am aware. Mountnorris are on rootsireland but only for the years 1833 ? 1846 and Tullyallen are on line from 1834 ? 1868. So to see all the records that exist you may need to go to PRONI (or get someone else to do it for you).

I don?t know of any Baptist records for that area. (But in any event as you will be aware they don?t practice infant baptism, so in terms of finding someone?s birth date they aren?t very helpful anyway).

John Wallace married Margaret Clement son 7^th Sept 1854. You can view their marriage cert on-line for ?2 on the GRONI site (sue the search marriage registrations option). That will give you his father?s name which may help you get back a further generation.

Gravestones would be another source of information on the family.

Elwyn

Thank you all so much for taking time to help me with this, it looks like I will need a trip to Belfast to help my investigations along.

I very much appreciate all of your help.

Kevin

Kevin, I am wondering if your original John Wallace from Rathcarbery had a daughter named Mary Ann, born about 1831? She married a Mr Adams, who died, and lived at Lisadian. She later married Thomas Sinclair from Drumharriff in1854. I think Kingsmills Presbyterian was their church.

It would be great to hear from anyone who knows anything about these people.

Sorry, I can see now that the dates don't work out. If John Wallace's son Robert was born in 1871, he would not have had a sister born in 1831. So it must be a different John Wallace.

Gilly 

We can through some light on Mary Ann Adams wife of Thomas Sinclair as they were my husband's great grandparents .

Regards 

Ruth

Hi, a bit late in answering this so hope someone gets it....... I have John Wallace (1827-1901) also- he is my great-great- grandfather. However, it appears that he was married twice- once to Margaret Clements and once to Jane Wallace (another Wallace family) who is my great-great-grandmother. As for going futher back, yes John's father was Robert Wallace (1800-1856) who married Mary Miscample (?-1871). Robert's father was born in 1770 but I do not know his name. John had a number of siblings- Robert (1821-1891), Hugh (1825-), Thomas (1828-), Esther Jane (1831-1840) and James (1835-). 

My family of which my paternal grandmother was Wallace from this area..... is still in N.Ireland although not in the same area. My dad (and I) live in Australia and his brother lives in Canada but there are cousins etc still in Ireland. 

Hope to reach someone

Linda nee Irvine