Bernard Martin, James Martin

Mike:

I searched the subscription site Roots Ireland and I believe I located your family in Co. Meath. The only inconsistency is that the mother was Mary King or one record and Catherine King on the other. (see transcriptions below) I looked for siblings and there appear to be seven other siblings: Mary 1822 Ann 1823 Thomas 1824 Hugh 1832 Elizabeth 1834 John 1835 Judith 1837. Here is where it gets complcated. Six of the seven siblings show a mother Judith King while Thomas showed Bridget.

I looked for a marriage record but did not locate a record. So maybe there were a number of Nicholas Martins in Ratoath who married women with the surname King or the mother of all the children used four different given names. Do you have any info that would help to confirm one way or the other? Ratoath RC parish is in southeast Co. Meath  I did locate an 1828 Tithe listing record which shows a Nicholas Martin in Flemingtown townland in Ratoath civil parish and likely that is where your family is from.

Let me know if you have questions.

Roger McDonnell

Name:Bernard MartinDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:14-Sep-1825Address:Not RecordedParish/District:RATOATHGender:MaleCountyCo. Meath
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Nicholas MartinMother:Mary KingOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:John DalySponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Elizabeth Eiffe

Name:James MartinDate of Birth:
Date of Baptism:07-Mar-1829Address:Not RecordedParish/District:RATOATHGender:MaleCountyCo. Meath
Denomination:Roman Catholic
Father:Nicholas MartinMother:Catherine KingOccupation:
Sponsor 1 /
Informant 1:Luke DuffySponsor 2 /
Informant 2:Mary Duffy

Hello Roger,

Thank you very much for the reply, AND the research.

I did find some of the records you found quoted here, but cannot verify whether or not it is correct to my family. I did find that Mary King and Catherine King are the same person: Mary Cathering King.

It seems that the given name Bernard was (for some strange reason) extremely popular in the late 1780s thru 1800, in County Meath and County Cavan. I tried to eliminate "nons" by using James as a sibling, and the only candidates I found were the ones you found as well. But (and it is a BIG but), I have no way to verify. The only clues I have is that the Mary Ann McGovern Bernard married here was from the same town/village/parish as the Martins, and I only found one McGovern (Magauran) family that fit the bill, but, still no way to verify.

The biggest problem is that apparently Bernard and James left Ireland forever and didn't look back, as there has been nothing passed down from Ireland. However, I will now start a "deep dive" on Flemingtown in Ratoath and see what I can "unearth".

Thank you again for your help.

Sincerely,

Mike martin

Hi Mike,  

I will see if I can help you further.  I note you stat that they came from Cavan & Meath and indeed some parishes do cross county boundaries.  Were you able to access their marriage or death records? These records sometimes states names of parents.  Also see if you can find any naturalisation records.  If we could find their townland, it may help us identify their family.  Civil records do not exist for that period, but with a good bit of searching and luck we may be able to find something.  

Regards Carmel

Hello Carmel,

I do have death certificates for Bernard Martin and Mary Ann McGovern Martin, as well as the children, Mary, John, Bernard, Jr., James and Jane. In all but one of the DCs, it only states "Ireland" as the place of birth. In one DC, (Bernard, Jr.), Jane stated that her brother's parents were both born in Cavan, Ireland. I also have copies of the marriage of Bernard and Mary Ann, but no information other than "born in Ireland".

I wrote to several sources in County Cavan and Cavan Town, and all the replies were basically the same: "never heard of them". However, at that time (1990) there weren't the resources here or there that there are now, especially like the databases mentioned in my talk with Roger (above).

I also have the naturalization records, and they are mostly generic (even as late as 1880, 1776 was well remembered and Britain was "persona non grata", especially since Britain had pulled some sh*t to encourage the South to break away), and only refer to "The Queen of Britain and Ireland" when asking for renouncing of loyalty to a foreigh soverign, and of course, birth was only referred to as "Ireland".

This search may well be a lost cause as I stated to Roger; nothing has been passed down through 4 generations other than "Ireland". The only possible way that a "breakthrough" may happen is if there is some sort of newspaper reference or notification mentioning that Bernard and his brother James, due to the current conditions, have departed for America. I did find the sailing record and arrival, but apparently Bernard and James departed from Dublin to Liverpool and thence to Philadelphia, and there do not appear to be any records of passengers in Britain departing for America.

Anyway, thank you for your kindness and consideration.

Sincerely,

Mike Martin

Hi Mike. I’m not able to help you with any information on your family, but I too, have mystery “Martin” family connections in Cavan. My great grandfather, Thomas Martin, born about 1859, immigrated to Australia, as a 19 year old in 1878. Shipping records state that his father was Pat (Patrick) Martin and that he was still alive at this time, but we have no information other than that. I have joined the Cavan Ancestors Project on GEDMatch.com and am picking up genetic matches to my 101 year old father. However, I’ve been unable to narrow the search as yet. Have you had your DNA tested and, if so, are you on GEDMatch? Good luck with your research - Kerry Evans