Brian Simmons New Zealand

Marriage of Henry Simons to Jane Pratt registered Bailieborough 1870 Volume 17, page 445.

Birth of Thomas Simons regd Cootehill Oct ? Dec 1879 Vol 3, page 146.

Francis Simon birth regd Cootehill Apr ? Jun 1882 Vol 3, page 151.

Poss death fro Henry Simons regd Cootehill Apr ? Jun 1908, vol 3, page 91. Est year of birth 1891.

If you get these certs it should give you clues as to where the family were living. However I?d guess they were in the townland of Corballyquill. This looks like them in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Ashfield/Corballyquill/1046809/

They were church of Ireland, so I?d search the local records for baptisms etc of other children. Parish is Kildrumsherdan. A copy of the church records is held in PRONI, Belfast but is not on-line as far as I am aware.

The family are not listed in Corballyquill in 1857 in Griffiths valuation so I?d say Henry moved there sometime after that. Perhaps when he married. There was a Henry Simmons on plot 27 in Corbeagh townland in 1857 with a farm & 12 acres. That could have been him. It?s the only Henry Simmons entry in Kildrumsherdan parish at the time. (The marriage cert should have his address in 1870).

The family were still in Corballyquill in 1911:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cavan/Ashfield/Cordall…

Griffiths revaluation records (in the Valuation office in Dublin) would tell you whne they arrived in that townland, and also if and when they left.

Thanks for the reply.  The interesting thing is the spelling of the surname with one "m".  I have Thomas bible which has an insription in it as follows   from Rev R Plummer, Asbjiela Glebe, Cootehill Co Cavan. 11 Nov 1901.  Which is the year he came to New Zealand. 

I note you had Henry Simons as dead 1908 , with Est year of birth 1891 That would only make him 17.

I have info that the Children were born as follows Thomas and Frank Cootehill,  Anne 1872 Drum,Monaghan,  Jane 1874 Monaghan and William Henry 1875, with John that makes 6 Children

Also I have another Francis (Frank) Simmons from Cavan he was born in 1848 Father William and Mother Ann nee Cootes he had a brother John born 1840.  They both came out to New Zealand.

I do not have a good understand of the Irish Townland and Parish system

I would love to make contact

Brian,

The idea of a single or correct spelling for a surname or a place name is very much a recent phenomenon and before that, especially in Ireland, there was no consistency. Names were spelled phonetically and each variation was down to the whim of the particular person (often an official) recording the information. With family names you will see the spelling change all the time as the records go back. This rarely indicates a particular deliberate decision to alter the spelling. Not everyone was literate, but even when they were, exact spelling simply wasn?t something they bothered about. In addition to varying the actual spelling, acquiring/dropping O? or Mac prefixes was also very common.

Henry Simmons year of birth is a typo. Correct year should read 1834. I can add that his date of death was 2^nd June 1908 and that the executor of his will was Wm H Simons, farmer. The estate was valued at ?171. 2. 6d. (Info from National Archives in Dublin). You can get a copy of the will from Nat Archives. Cost is I think ?15, but there are further fees if you want a copy of the document summarising his estate. http://www.nationalarchives.ie/index.html (e-mail them and they?ll confirm whether they have the will and the cost for copying it).

Taking into account the children you have mentioned, it looks to me as though there were at least 7 children to this marriage. I can see what looks like Isabella?s birth registered in Cootehill Apr ? Jun 1884, Vol 3, page 156. John?s was Oct ? Dec 1888 Vol 3, page 121. Anne?s was registered in Cootehill 1872 Vol 8, page 200; Jane in 1874 (in Cootehill, Cavan, not Monaghan) Vol 8, page 191; William Henry Symons (note spelling) 1875 Vol 18, page 157. I looked for William Henry Simons death. There is one for someone born 1875, in Apr ? Jun 1958 but it?s in Ballymahon, which is in another county, so I can?t be certain it?s the same man.

A townland is the smallest administrative area of land in Ireland. They can vary in size from 1 acre up to 5000 acres, though most are between 50 and 500 acres. The whole country is divided into townlands. Many are rural, and there is not necessarily any town in a townland. Indeed some have no-one at all living in them eg mountain tops and uninhabited islands. Originating in the older Gaelic dispensation, and dating back to the 11^th century, if not earlier, townlands were used as the basis of leases in the estate system, and subsequently to assess valuations and tithes in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

In rural areas there were no street names or house numbers (that is still the case in some remoter parts) and your townland was sufficient to identify you or get a letter delivered. The postman, and anyone else who mattered, knew exactly where in the townland everyone lived. They survive as important markers of local identity. (A townland is not the same as a US township). Corballyquill is 290 acres in size.

A parish was a group of townlands (anything from 1 to 50 townlands in a parish).

If you want to see where Corballyquill was (and still is) you can use the maps on Griffiths Valuation. It shows a map from the 1850s and then there is a slider bar facility in the top RH side of the map screen which allows you to overlay a modern map.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

To find the family farm today, you need first to access the Valuation Record offices in Dublin, from which you will get a plot number. (There were around 19 farms in the townland). All the plot numbers are shown on the on-line map, so once you have found the right one from the revaluation records, you?ll be able to locate it precisely. But in general terms the farm was about 2 miles west of Cootehill, just to the north east of White Lough which is adjacent to the L2032 minor road out of Cootehill.

Re the inscription in the bible, it probably says ?Ashfield? Glebe rather than ?Asbjiela?. Rev Richard Plummer was Rector (ie Church of Ireland Minister) there in the late 1800s. See:

http://www.irelandoldnews.com/Cavan/1877/APR.html

Ashfield is in Kildrumsherdan parish. So this all fits with the family in Corballyquill.

The family of William Simmons and Ann Cootes will be harder to trace. Their marriage was evidently before 1840 and so before the start of statutory marriage registration (April 1845). Likewise the 2 children you mention were born before the start of birth registration (1864). However searching Griffiths for 1857, there were only 2 William Simmons households listed, both in Kildrumsherdan parish. One was in the townland of Killycreeny and the other in Largy. So I?d be inclined to search those same Kildrumsherdan parish records to see if your family were one of those two.

If you have any further questions, just let me know.

Elwyn

I have:

William SIMONS and wife, Ann, of Killacreeny, Kildrumsherdan, Cavan, Ireland

I have 3 children listed for them:

1.  Ann Jane, b. c. 1835

2.  Isabella, b. 23 Mar 1841

3.  Thomas, b. 10 Aug 1849

Ann Jane SIMONS married:

1855, 4 April -  James JORDAN, born 1830 in Drum, Currin, Monaghan

1867, 9 January - William POTTS, born 1835 in Kilmore Parish

  Isabella SIMONS married:

  1866, Mar 12 - John ADAMS [they had six children born]

In related matters,

there was a David Simons married to Anne Wallace whose sons David, Henry and John emigrated to Canada about 1860 and whose daughters Prudence emigrated with her husband James Burke and Margaret emigrated with her husband Robert Armstrong followed by son Thomas with his wife Margaret McAdam in 1884 with the mother Anne. Patriarch David is buried at Ashfield Church. There was a brother William who did not emigrate and did not keep in contact.

We have been trying to untangle all the cousins and ancestors.

Peggy

Well, it's been 3+ years since the last post on your query.  Don't know if you have since solved the puzzle of this branch of the SIMONS family in Ashfield/Kildrumsherdan Parish, but if not, here is what I have on them:  Henry SIMONS was married twice.  His first wife was named Jane PRATT and they had three children:  Anne, b. 9 Apr 1872, Jane, b. 26 March 1874 and William Henry b. 30 Nov 1875.  Henry's 2nd wife was Jane SPEARE and they had three children:  Thomas b. 30 Oct 1879, Isabella b. 1884 and John b. 1888.  The family home was in the townland of Corballyquill, Kildrumsherdan Parish, Cavan.  Patricia

My great grandfather was Francis Simmons who was born in Cootehill in 1848 who emigrated with his brother John to Australia initially and then to New Zealand in about 1860.  His parents were William Henry Simmons who was born in Cavan in 1805 and he was married to Ann Cootes who was born in Cootehill in 1829 and who died in Cootehill 1892.  William Simmons died in Cootehill in 1881.  I am assuming they were farmers and were probably farming in the townland of Largy.  I would be interested in knowing more about the family.  My great grandfather was a very  wealthy and successful farmer and breed prize winning horses and other animals.   He made his money provisioning the gold miners on the West Coast of New Zealand.  I know nothing about his family in Ireland and would be interested in learning more.  I recently in Cootehill, but found very little information about the family.  It seems likely that Ann Cootes was somehow related to the Cootes family that founded the town.

Melanie

Melanie,

Here’s a link to Anne Simons death on 21.12.1891 at Corbeagh. She was a farmer’s widow and the informant was her son Thomas Simons, also of Corbeagh. She was 86 which means she was born around 1806, so about the same age as her husband.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1892/06044/4721868.pdf

William also died at Corbeagh on 22.5.1881:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1881/06438/4849777.pdf

He was a farmer. William left a will and it was probated at Dublin on 27.7.1881. His executor was Thomas Simons of Corbeagh. Presumably his son.

http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014897/005014…

Here’s Thomas and family in the 1901 census:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cavan/Ashfield/Corbeagh/1046840/

They appear to have left Ireland by the 1911 census. The family was Methodist in 1901 but originally they will have been Church of Ireland. So check both sets of records if looking for baptisms and marriages etc. The couple appear to have married before the start of statutory marriage registration in Ireland (1845 for non RC marriages) because they are not in the statutory records. So you would need to search parish records for their marriage.  Ashfield Church of Ireland has the following records:

Baptisms, 1821-7 and 1839-1907; marriages, 1845-1956; burials, 1818-27 and 1856-1935.

Killesherdoney has this: Killesherdoney (Kilmore diocese) Baptisms, 1796-1805 and 1810-1982; marriages, 1796-1803 and 1812-45; burials, 1797-1802, 1811-24 and 1827-1929.

The Methodist church at Cortubber has this:

Cortubber [sic Cortober]

Baptisms, 1877-1910 and 1957-67; marriages, 1882-

1950.

Copies of all those records are in PRONI in Belfast.

Griffiths Valuation for 1857 lists a Henry Simmons farming in Corbeagh. Possibly William Henry's father? He had plot 26 which was 12 and a half acres. That farm today is about a mile from Cootehill. Take the L 2032 out of the town and turn down an-unnamed lane near the Dromore River. You may need to ask locally.

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameS…

The Simmons/Simons Family.  I have info from the FamilySearch Web Site (LDS)  Jane Simons born 26 Mar 1874 County Caven  Parents Henry Simons and Jane  (born Pratt)  Siblings Wiliam Henry, Isabella, John, Thomas and Frank.  No mention of Anne. This info may not be correct.  Also I have located Thomas will were he names Frank his Brother and his Sister Margaret Mills.  Frank names his nephew Henry Francis Edward Mills in his Will.   Thomas worked for the NZ railways in the North Island and lived mainly in Wellington. Frank never Married and worked for the Wellington Habour Board.  Who is Margaret???

Brian S