Plaice / Scannell

Mike:

Welcome to Ireland Reaching Out!

There was only one Plaice family in Co. Cork in the 1901 census http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/Gowlane/Fornaght/1123699/

Same family in 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Gowlane/Fornaght/424188/

Is it possible that William and John were the same person?

The family lived in Donaghmore civil parish. Banteer is an RC parish not far from Donaghmore civil parish.

Roger McDonnell

Mike:

Henry Plaice died 1903  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05658/4593038.pdf

Hannah Plaice died in 1916 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05248/4454740.pdf

John Plaice the father died in 1919

  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1919/05147/4418751.pdf

Son William died 1917  https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1917/05218/4443919.pdf

Roger

Thanks Roger,

In both these Census, It shows Hannah (Wife) as older than John (husband). The wedding certificate shows Hannah as 4 years his younger. How accurate were the census' taken?

I have wondered if John and William could have been the same person. I just have nothing to know for sure. But one interesting note, John, the son, my Gr. Grandfather had 3 children named William, John and Norah. So I have wondered about this family because the names seem to be the same between generations which I believe was common. 

I just am not sure if there is any way to find out conclusively if John Sr and William are the same person. Which would not be uncommon for my family.  John jr was always called Jack and my Grandfather his son was named John, but always went by Patrick even though it was not his given name nor middle.

Sorry if this all sounds confusing. 

Mike:

Many brides (and grooms) did not give an accurate age when they married. The 1901 census ages were generally undestated and the 1911 census ages were more accurate in my experience. 

Roger

Hi Mike,

I have been aske by Jane Halloran Ryan of Ireland XO to try to help you with your query if possib;le

In have spent several hours extensively checking all possible resources for further information on the Plaice family but have not found any additional information, but would suggest the following

However, having spent many years transcribing Church and State records, I would be very certain in making the following assumptions, I would disregard the ages given in all instances for the family for several reasons but the main ones being that, in the Census returns for both 1901 & 1911, both William/John & Hannah are reported as illiterate and more than likely would also have been slow or unable to calculate their own and their childres ages and would be dependant on the enumerator of the Census to either calculate their ages for entry and in the event of an error being made, could not contradict the entry. Also in both Census returns, across the board, many families gave higher ages than they actually were as it was in those years that old age pensions were first being discussed and people were putting in older ages in order to qualify sooner when the pension was eventually introduced. However many forgot that Civil Registration of tbirthdate had begun in 1864 and would have been known to the authorities anyway. I have also found that in Church Baptism and Marriage records, while all that had to be recorded for those over 21 was "full age", in the case of illiterate people being married, the officiating priest would enter what he thought was about their age at the time.The same applied to names at Baptism in that if a child had been baptised as William John, at a subsequent marriage, the priest would look at the baptismal register and/or ask for the persons full name and enter the first name rather than both even though the bride/groom had been by then using their second name verbally and on documents. Again, an incorrect or misleading entry could not be contradicted by the couple.

As I said previously, I have extensively searched the entire country for information and found no more than you and Roger and am very confident that there ar no further records to find. I am also confident that all the records found are quite definitely your family. I have attached copies of William & Hannah's marriage, John's Birth at 331 Blarney Street in Cork and the two Census Returns. John,s Civil birth record appears to be the only one in Cork city and I have found no other family entry elsewhere. I will continue to explore the Civil record for the other family members but I would not be surprised if William/John & Hannah did not register the children when they were in rural locations because of difficulty of travel to nearest Reg. Office or because of their illiteracy problems causing them embarrassment

If you have any further information come to hand and would like me to help, I will be happy to try.

Stay safe & Well in these difficult times

Frank Fahy

frankfahy054@gmail.com

Frank:

Thanks!

Roger