Maria Louisa Nesbitt b.1810

The marriage is included in Marriage Licence records transcribed by Rosemary Ffolliott, marriage date was 5th February 1833 and it took place at St. Finbar's / Fin Barre's Church of Ireland Cathedral in Cork city. The parish also had a chapel of ease at Blackrock. Early marriage records are usually quite basic - so the original probably does not include any additional details - possibly names of witnesses and the current parishes of the bride and groom.

Marriages generally took place in the bride's parish so worth checking for any possible baptism for her family in St. Finbar's. Church of Ireland records are not well covered online at the moment, I dont think any significant collection for Cork city Church of Ireland parishes available online at this time. The RCB (Representative Church body) Library hold many historic Church of Ireland records for Ireland, and they are working on a Transcription process.. which should eventually include those for St. Finbar's - see Anglican Records Project

A check of the latest parish list shows that historic records for St. Fin Barre's Church of Ireland are held by the RCB Library and cover back to the 1750s for baptism, marriages and death/burials

Attached Files

Hello Peter,

To compliment the information kindly provided by Shane on 17 October 2022, the marriage of Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd and Maria Louisa Nesbitt can be found in the “Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds Indexes, 1623 – 1866,” for the Diocese of Cork and Ross. These are only indexes however, and do not provide any further information than what you have concerning the marriage.

The Marriage License Bond Indexes can be searched for free at the National Archives of Ireland website link at:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/search/dm/home.jsp

There are actually two indexes in separate marriage bond books, one for Maria Louisa Nesbitt, and one for Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd. Both indexes include the name of the person they married, and the year of marriage, 1833. The full date of marriage was 5 February 1833 as mentioned by Shane Wilson, referencing marriage license records transcribed by Rosemary Ffolliott.

There are other marriages in the two index books, alphabetical by surname, all from the 18th and 19th centuries.

For the hand-written marriage bond index for Maria Louisa Nesbitt, go to the National Archives of Ireland website link at:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dm/IRE_DIOC_007246533_00033.pdf

There are two facing pages of the index book. The entry for Maria is in the left-hand page, grouped with other marriage bonds for various years.

For the marriage index pertaining to Mounteford, go to the National Archives of Ireland website link at:
http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/dm/IRE_DIOC_007246532_00665.pdf

The entry for Mounteford is in the right-hand page.

For more information about marriage license bonds and other Church of Ireland diocesan records, go to the genealogy.com website link at:
https://www.irish-geneaography.com/church-of-ireland-dioceses--diocesan…

Peter, in your message to Ireland Reaching Out, you mentioned that Maria Nesbitt Lloyd had three children in India. But, I uncovered christening indexes at the FamilySearch website, showing four children.

The indexes spell the names of some of the children incorrectly, as you’ll see below.

These children, in order of baptism year were:

Monntefat Cleant Sloylyger Lloyd, 1834
Bateman Nesbett Baumgard, 1836
Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd, 1839
Maria Frederica Josephine Lloyd, 1842
____

The christening indexes come from a FamilySearch collection called, “India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947.” The four indexes are below:

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Name Monntefat Cleant Sloylyger Lloyd
Sex Male
Christening Date 6 Sep 1834
Christening Place Bombay Presidency, India
Christening Place (Original) Poona, Bombay, India
Birth Date 18 Aug 1834

Father's Name Monntefat Lloyd
Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Maria Louisa
Mother's Sex Female
Event Type Christening

Cite This Record
"India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGHT-YHL : 5 February 2020), Monntefat Cleant Sloylyger Lloyd, 1834.
____

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Name Bateman Nesbett Baumgard Lloyd
Sex Male
Christening Date 10 Jul 1836
Christening Place Bombay Presidency, India
Christening Place (Original) Poona, Bombay, India
Birth Date 3 Apr 1836

Father's Name Mountifort Houghton Hoylegar Lloyd
Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Maria Louisa
Mother's Sex Female

Event Type Christening

Cite This Record
"India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGCC-2W5 : 5 February 2020), Bateman Nesbett Baumgard Lloyd, 1836.
____

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Name Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd
Sex Female
Christening Date 10 Nov 1839
Christening Place Bombay Presidency, India
Christening Place (Original) Poona, Bombay, India
Birth Date 20 Oct 1839
Birthplace Poona, Bombay, India

Father's Name Mountifort Stoughton Haligar Lloyd
Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Maria Louisa
Mother's Sex Female

Event Type Christening

Cite This Record
"India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGXP-QFV : 5 February 2020), Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd, 1839.
____

India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947

Name Maria Frederica Josephine Lloyd
Sex Female
Christening Date 9 Jan 1842
Christening Place Bombay Presidency, India
Christening Place (Original) Deesa, Bombay, India
Birth Date 5 Dec 1841

Father's Name Mountifort Loughton Heyliger Lloyd
Father's Sex Male

Mother's Name Maria Louisa
Mother's Sex Female

Event Type Christening

Cite This Record
"India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDG-VQ7 : 5 February 2020), Maria Frederica Josephine Lloyd, 1842.
____

The India Births and Baptisms 1786-1947” collection can be searched at the FamilySearch website link as you’ll see in a bit. You do not have to be a member of the LDS Church to search their website, but you will need to establish a free account: https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1584960

I left the FamilySearch website and went to the subscription ancestry.com website to see what other information I could uncover about Maria Louisa Lloyd.

At Ancestry’s Geneanet Community Trees Index I found a death index showing that Maria died in 1847. The index shows her spouse was Mountifort Stoughton Heyliger Lloyd, and that her children were Frederica Maria Josephine Lloyd, Longerville Nesbitt Lloyd, and
Mountifort Trant Heyliger Lloyd. The child not mentioned in the index is Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd, who was born in 1839, as noted earlier. See the Geneanet Community Trees Index index below:

Geneanet Community Trees Index

Name: Maria Louisa Nesbitt
Gender: F (Female)
Death Date: 1847
Spouse: Mountifort Stoughton Heyliger Lloyd

Children:
Frederica Maria Josephine Lloyd
Longerville Nesbitt Lloyd
Mountifort Trant Heyliger Lloyd

Source Information
Ancestry.com. Geneanet Community Trees Index [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2022.

Original data: Geneanet Community Trees Index. Paris, France: Geneanet.
____

I also found Maria Louisa Lloyd recorded in the ancestry.com collection, “Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licences, 1591-1866.”

The probate index does not give an exact date of death for Maria, noting that the probate date was between 1841 and 1858. The probate place was Poonah East Indies, and the registration place, Ireland. See the index below:

Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licenses, 1591-1866

Name Maria Louisa Lloyd
Record Type Probate
Probate Date 1841-1858
Probate Place Poonah East Indies
Registration Place Ireland

Source information
Title: Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licences, 1591-1866.
____

The probate book referencing Maria is attached to this reply. The are two facing pages of the probate book. Maria is recorded in the left-hand page, 12th entry up from the bottom.

If you look toward the top of the right-hand page of the probate book, you’ll see the year 1853. This may also be the year her probate was recorded, which would be six years after she died in 1847.

THE SECOND MARRIAGE OF MOUNTEFORD STOUGHTON HYLEGER LLOYD

Through further research at the LDS website, I found that Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd had remarried. This information comes from the LDS collection, “England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005,” and shows that he married in St. George Hanover Square, London, England in 1847. The exact day and month are not recorded, nor is the name of his spouse recorded in the index you see below:

England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005

Name Mountifort Staughton Heyliger Lloyd
Marriage Date 1847
Marriage Place St. George Hanover Square, London, England
Event Type Marriage
Registration District St. George Hanover Square
Page 162
Volume 1
Affiliate Line Number 37
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1847

Cite This Record
"England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2643-1JF : 13 December 2014), Mountifort Staughton Heyliger Lloyd, 1847; from "England & Wales Marriages, 1837-2005," database, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : 2012); citing 1847, quarter 4, vol. 1, p. 162, St. George Hanover Square, London, England, General Register Office, Southport, England.
____

At the FamilySearch collection, “British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices,” I found that the marriage was reported in the Norwich Chronicle newspaper, Norwich, England, which gives the further information that “M S H Lloyd, Esq,” had married Eliza Margaret on 6 November 1847. Eliza Margaret’s father is Walter Clerk, Esq. Please see the marriage notice transcription below:

British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices

Name M S H Lloyd, Esq
Sex Male
Marriage Date Nov 1847
Spouse's Name Eliza Margaret
Spouse's Sex Female
Spouse's Marriage Date Nov 1847
Spouse's Father's Name Walter Clerk, Esq
Marriage Notice Date 6 Nov 1847
Marriage Notice Place Norwich, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom
Marriage Notice Place (Original) Norwich, Norfolk, England
Event Type Marriage Notice
Event Place Note 1524-1984
Newspaper Norfolk Chronicle
Page Number 4

Cite This Record
"British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPC2-DPK4 : 17 April 2019), Eliza Margaret in entry for M S H Lloyd, Esq, Norwich, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom; records extracted FamilySearch and images digitized by FindMyPast; citing Norwich, Norfolk, England, United Kingdom, 6 Nov 1847, The British Newspaper Archive, Ireland; FHL microfilm .
____

The England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005, and the British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices, prompted me to see if I could find a copy of the original church or civil registration marriage record at the subscription ancestry.com website. I was successful in this search and found that the marriage took place in the Parish Church of St. George, Hanover Square, County of Middlesex, England on October 28, 1847. Both “Mountifort” and Eliza Margaret were of “full age” when they married.

Concerning Mountifort, the marriage record shows at the time of marriage he was a “Widower,” and that his rank or profession was “Major.” His residence was Athlone, Westmeath, Ireland. His father is Richard Bateman Lloyd, employed as a “Collector of Customs.”

No occupation is recorded for Eliza Margaret Clerk. Her address is Maddox Street. Her father is Walter Clerk, employed as an “Engineer.”

Mountifort and Eliza Margaret were married by License by Albert Alston, Curate of the Parish Church of St. George Hanover Square. The first name of one of the witnesses to the marriage looks like it may be Cooper. His last name looks like Brooke. The second witness is Caroline Victoria Clerk. The marriage record is attached to this reply,and is number 392 in the register.

For a history of the St. George Hanover Square Church of England, Mayfair, London, go to the church website at: https://www.stgeorgeshanoversquare.org/history.html

When I was looking for Mounteford and Eliza Margaret Clerk’s marriage record at ancestry.com, I also found the marriage record for Mounteford and Maria Louisa Nesbitt’s son, Mounteford. His full name in the marriage record is Mounteford Heyliger Trant Lloyd. He would be one of the three Lloyd children who was mentioned in the Geneanet Community Trees Index, shown earlier.

Mounteford and Florence Emily Hamilton were married in St Peter’s Church of England, Parish of Brighton, Sussex, England, on October 19, 1873. At the time of marriage Mounteford was a 38 year Bachelor and Florence a 21 year old Spinster. Mounteford’s occupation was, “Captain late 2nd Queens Royals.” No occupation is recorded for Florence, but both had been living at an address of 1 Steine Street at the time of marriage.

Mounteford’s father is Mounteford Heyliger Staughton Lloyd, who was an ”Officer.” Florence’s father is Joseph Richard Hamilton, who was a “Clerk in Holy Orders.” Mounteford and Florence were married by “License” by the Curate of St. Peter’s, whose last name is Hannah.

The name of one of the witnesses to the marriage was John Sheffley. I could not make out the name of the second witness because of the handwriting. The marriage record is attached to the reply, and is the second marriage record, number 470.

A Google Map shows that Steine Street, Brighton, is 7/10ths of a mile south of St. Peter’s Church: https://tinyurl.com/y2wxh22n

Here is a Google Street View of Steine Street, Brighton: https://tinyurl.com/4pk7r2v6

The following will take you to a Google Street View of St. Peter’s Church, Brighton, under renovation: https://tinyurl.com/586jx5s4

Here is another Google Street View of St. Peter’s: https://tinyurl.com/yc4rw5tx

GRIFFITHS VALUATION

Going back to Mounteford Sr. and Eliza Margaret Clerk’s October 28, 1847 marriage record, you’ll see that the groom’s residence at the time of marriage was Athlone, Westmeath. Westmeath was, and is one of the 12 counties located in the Province of Leinster. Athlone was in the Civil Parish of St. Mary when Mounteford’s residence was there.

I next looked for Mounteford Lloyd Sr. in an Irish property tax record known as Griffiths Valuation. The valuation took place in the 32 counties of Ireland from 1847 to 1864. The valuation for Athlone and St. Mary’s Civil Parish, as well as surrounding parishes in County Westmeath, was completed by the year 1854.

Unlike a census, Griffiths Valuation did not enumerate individual members of a family, such as husband, wife, and children in a household residence. Those named in the valuation were individuals who paid to lease property, such as land, houses, and outbuildings. Each person who paid to lease the property was called an “Occupier.” The other person listed in Griffiths Valuation was the person who owned the property, or who worked as the middleman collecting the rent on Gale Day for the owner. This middleman was called the “Immediate Lessor.”

You can search Griffiths Valuation transcriptions and original copies for free at the Ask About Ireland website link at:
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml

I found “Colonel Lloyd” in Griffiths Valuation, showing he had leased a house, yard, and small garden at 12 Strand Street, Civil Parish of St. Mary’s, Athlone, Westmeath, from an Immediate Lessor named Simon Clarke. The house was valued at 2 Pounds. The yard and small garden did not retain a value.

Colonel Lloyd would not have been required to pay a tax on the house, as only those properties valued over 5 Pounds were subject to the tax. In this case the owner of the property was responsible for paying the tax.

The Griffiths Valuation for Colonel Lloyd and other occupiers in Strand Street, is attached to this reply.

This Google Map shows that Strand Street is near the River Shannon in Athlone: https://tinyurl.com/5n7skjhv

For a Google Street View of Strand Street, Athlone, go to: https://tinyurl.com/4wa4c48d

An Ordnance Survey Map from the late 19th or early 20th century shows the location of Strand Street in Athlone. Strand Street is toward the middle of the map, and crosses Lloyd’s Lane heading southeast. The map is attached to this reply.

Back to the Google Map of Athlone, you’ll see Lloyd’s Lane and Strand Street: https://tinyurl.com/338vjywm

Here is Google Street View of Strand Street and Lloyd’s Lane to the right: https://tinyurl.com/3pjxn6f8

Peter, a good research project would be to see if Lloyd’s Lane in Athlone, was named after Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd.

In your message to Ireland Reaching Out you had mention that Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd comes from the Lloyds of Losset. There are several townlands in Ireland, in several different counties named Losset, as you’ll see in the IreAtlas Townland Data Base link at: https://tinyurl.com/yumuz9xh

At the Library Ireland website, I found John O’Hart’s, “Irish Pedigrees; or the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation,” Volume 2, 5th edition, printed in 1892.

In this work he goes through the pedigree of the Lloyds of Losset, County Cavan. But, I don’t see any reference to Mounteford or his father Richard Bateman Lloyd. See “Lloyd (No. 1.) family genealogy,” and “Lloyd (No. 2.) family genealogy” at the links that follow:

https://www.libraryireland.com/Pedigrees2/lloyd-1.php
https://www.libraryireland.com/Pedigrees2/lloyd-2.php

Griffiths Valuation for Losset, Civil Parish of Killashandra, County Cavan, shows a Bartholomew C. Lloyd in Losset. Aside from himself, there are 12 other occupiers leasing property in Losset. Bartholomew is recorded twice. In both instances you’ll see the words, “In fee” after his name. This means he was the owner of the property. He was the Immediate Lessor for the other 12 occupiers in town. The Immediate Lessor designation, in this instance, is an indication he owned the property the 12 occupiers had leased. See the Griffiths Valuation attachment.

Did Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd, at some time during his life, reside in one of the other townlands named Losset, as shown in the IreAtlas Townland Data Base?

MOUNTIFORT SR’S DEATH RECORD

A death record from the free irishgenealogy.ie website shows that Mountifort Staughton Keyliger Lloyd died at the age of 73 on 10 January 1875. The place of death was 47 Leinster Road, Dublin. He was married at the time of death. His occupation had been “Major-General.” The cause of death was, “Debility some time uncertified. Bronchitis seven weeks. Certified 13/2/75.” The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the registrar was Ernest F S Lloyd, of 47 Leinster Road. Unfortunately, the death record does not mention how Ernest is related to Mountifort, but I suspect it was his son from his marriage with Eliza Margaret Clerk. The registrar, Robert Browne, recorded the death in the Dublin South Registration District on 8 February 1875. You can access the death record after following the prompts at: https://tinyurl.com/3d4evrjn

A Google Map shows that the Leinster Road is in a section of Dublin South called Rathmines, a little over three miles south of the Dublin City Centre, Custom House Quay: https://tinyurl.com/5fctdy62

For a Google Street View of the Leinster Road, Rathmines, Dublin, see: https://tinyurl.com/4djxe5b9

The irishgenealogy.ie website has two major search components. One for the “Civil Records” of births, marriages, and death, and one for Catholic and Protestant “Church Records” of baptisms, marriages, and burials for select areas of Ireland, including Dublin City, and large areas of County Cork, excluding most of Cork City. For more information about the church parish registers, and their areas of coverage at irishgenealogy.ie, go to: https://tinyurl.com/ye76mwea

The informant of Mountifort’s death in 1875 was Ernest F S Lloyd. He would have been an adult when he reported the death, and so would have been born before 1864, the year the government began to record birth, marriage, and death records for all religious denominations in Ireland.

I went to irishgenalogie.ie’s Church Records collection to look for Ernest’s baptism record, as I thought he may have been born and baptized in Dublin City.

I found his baptism record, showing that Ernest Frederick Stoughton Lloyd, was baptized in St. Peter’s Church of Ireland, Rathmines, Dublin, on June 8, 1857. A note accompanying his baptism states, “privately, very ill.” His father is Montifort Stoughton Heyligar Lloyd. Ernest’s mother is Eliza Margaret. Eliza’s maiden name was not recorded. The address of Ernest, Montifort, and Eliza is 47 Leinster Road. Montifort’s occupation is “Colonel.” The clergyman who baptized Ernest was Loftus T. Shire, Curate. Ernest’s baptism is number 151 in the register:
https://tinyurl.com/4ayjwaah

Switching over to the Civil Records collection at irishgeealogy.ie, I found the 16 October 1889 marriage for Ernest Frederick Stoughton Lloyd and Laura Smith. Because the handwriting in the marriage record is difficult to read, I couldn’t make out what Laura’s middle name was.

Ernest and Laura were married in what looks like the Rathfarnham Parish Church of Ireland, County of Dublin. The marriage record shows that Ernest had been a bachelor of “full age,” and that Laura was a spinster “of full age.” Ernest’s occupation is, “Gentleman.” There appear to be two different places of residence for Ernest at the time of marriage. One looks like 47 Leinster Rd, Rathmines. I couldn’t make out the other residence because of the handwriting.

Ernest’s father is Mountifort F.S. Lloyd, a “Major General,” but Mountiford would have been deceased by 1889.

No occupation is recorded for Laura. I had an extremely difficult time making out her residence at the time of marriage, but it appears to be Crumlin Park, Crumlin, Dublin. The name of her father looks like Peter Smith, whose occupation was “Captain.”

Ernest and Laura were married by License. I could only make out a portion of the clergyman’s name who married them. It looks like Sandys.

The first name of one of the witnesses to the marriage looks like Caroline. I couldn’t tell what her last name was. The second witness was Douglas Wright. The marriage record can be accessed at: https://tinyurl.com/3zyayjpt

ERNEST LLOYD’S DEATH RECORD

Still at the irishgenealogy.ie website, I found that Ernest died just short of eight months after his marriage. The death record shows that he died on June 8 at the age of 33 years. His place of death was “2 Meath Cottages, Bray, Co. Wicklow.” County Wicklow borders County Dublin on the south. Ernest was married when he died.

The cause of Ernest’s death was, “Syncope of Heart 3 months.” The person who was present at the death looks like F I H Taaffe, Phys: Cousin Present at death.” His first-name initial may have been J instead of F. His residence was 61 Rathmines Road, Co. Dublin. The assistant registrar, Sylvester Byrne, recorded the death in the Rathdown Registration District on June 11, 1890. Ernst’s death is number 61 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/6zj3hkp9

Moving ahead 11 years I found Ernest’s wife, 31 year old Laura Lloyd in the 1901 census at the National Archives of Ireland website, which further shows she was a widow and the head of the household with “No Occupation.” She belonged to the Church of Ireland, was born in Dublin, and could read and write.

There are two other people in the household with her. They are 40 year old Katie Smith of “No Occupation,” She was not married, also belonged to the Church of Ireland, and could read and write. Her relation to the head of the household, Laura A Lloyd, was “Visitor.” If you recall, Laura’s maiden name was Smith, and so Kati may have been her sister, or perhaps a cousin.

Also in the household is 25 year old “General Domestic Servant,” Annie Downing. She belonged to the “Irish Church,” that is, the Church of Ireland and was born in Cork. She could read and write and was not married.

The census shows that Laura, Katie, and Annie were the “Residents of a house 34 in Greystones (part of) (Delgany, Wicklow).”

The census was taken on Sunday evening 31 March 1901.

A transcription of the 1901 census, from the National Archives of Ireland, can be found at: https://tinyurl.com/2u35tpx3

Once the census downloads, make sure you tick the box, “Show all information” to view the full census page.

A copy of the original census of the Laura Lloyd household can be viewed at: https://tinyurl.com/y96e9rs8

If you look to the lower right side of the census, you’ll see that “Laura A. Lloyd,” signed the form. The Enumerator, John Powe, collected the census from her home.

At the irishgenealogy.ie website I found that Laura Anita Lloyd died in a place that looks like Resthaven, Hillside Road, Greystone, Wicklow, on 17 December 1960. At the time of death she was a 90 year old widow of “Independent Means.” The cause of death was “Cardio Respirator Failure,” and “Old Age.” The person who was present at the death and who reported the death to the registrar was H.S. Mackesy, of Penharbour, Greystone. The registrar, whose name I could not decipher, recorded Laura’s death in the Rathdrum Registration District on 13 December 1860. See number 82 in the register: https://tinyurl.com/hmxr48y5

BATEMAN NESBITT BAUMGARD LLOYD, FREDERICA MARIA ELIZABETH LLOYD AND MARIA FREDERICA JOSEPHINE LLOYD

I next wanted to see what other information I could find pertaining to the children of Mounteford Stoughton Hyleger Lloyd and Maria Louisa Nesbitt. They were the younger siblings of Mounteford Heyliger Trant Lloyd. All four Lloyd children, as you saw earlier, were born in India. The three oldest children were born in Poona, Bombay, but the youngest child, Maria Frederica Josephine Lloyd was born in Deesa, Bombay.

I found an index that may pertain to Bateman Nesbitt Lloyd. This index is from the ancestry.com collection, “UK, Officer Service Records, 1764-1932.” But, the index gives his name as “L Nesbitt Lloyd, who was born in Poonah, India on 3 April 1837. The birth index from FamilySearch gives his birthdate as 3 Apr 1836.

In the Geneanet 1847 death index for Maria Louis Nesbett Lloyd, one of her children is recorded as, “Longerville Nesbitt Lloyd,” and so I think the Officer Service Record may pertain to the same individual with slightly different names, Bateman Nesbitt Baumgard Lloyd/Longerville Nesbitt Lloyd.

His service record shows he was an Ensign in the 40th Foot (82nd Foot) (South Lancashire Regiment), and that his enlistment date was 1 September 1854. See the index below:

UK, Officer Service Records, 1764-1932

Name: L Nesbitt Lloyd
Rank: Ensign
Birth Date: 3 Apr 1837
Birth Place: Poonah. India
Enlistment Date: 1 Sep 1854
Regiment: 40th Foot (82nd Foot) (South Lancashire Regiment)

Source Citation
The National Archives; Kew, London, England; WO 76 - War Office: Records of Officers' Services; Reference: WO 76/179

Source Information
Ancestry.com. UK, Officer Service Records, 1764-1932 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2019.
____

I didn’t uncover any more information online for Bateman Lloyd or L. Bateman Lloyd.

FREDERICA MARIA ELIZABETH LLOYD

At ancestry.com’s “India, Select Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948,” I located the burial index for Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd, who was buried in Deesa, Bombay, India on 21 April 1840. Her birth year is 1840, but the birth index at FamilySearch, noted earlier, gives her date of birth as 10 November 1839.

The burial index shows that Frederica’s father is S. H. Lloyd:

India, Select Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948

Name: Frederica Maria Elizabeth Lloyd
Gender: Female
Age: 0
Birth Date: 1840
Burial Date: 21 Apr 1840
Burial Place: Deesa, Bombay, India
Father: S. H. Lloyd
FHL Film Number: 523841

Source Information
Ancestry.com. India, Select Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2014.
____

MARIA FREDERICA JOSEPHINE LLOYD

I found both the civil marriage and church marriage for Maria at the irishgenealogy.ie website.

Maria and George Rodger were married in the Parish Church of St. Peter, Dublin, on January 2, 1872. At the time of marriage they were “both of full age.” George had been a bachelor and Maria a spinster. George’s occupation was “Engineer.” His residence was “Parish of St. George, Barrow in Furness,” which is in present-day Cumbria, England. His father is Alexander Rodger, a “Banker.”

No occupation is recorded for Frederica. Her address is “47 Leinster Road,” which as you know, is a South Dublin City address. Her father is Mountefort Stoughton H Lloyd.

The marriage record further shows that George and Frederica were married after “banns,” by a clergyman named Achilles Daunt, M.A.

The two witnesses to the marriage were Jno Roger and MSH Lloyd. MSH Lloyd would be Frederica’s father. Concerning the first witness, the initials “Jno” are an abbreviation for John.

The handwriting in the civil registration marriage record is a lot easier to understand. You can access the marriage record here: https://tinyurl.com/6fmumrdv

Here is the church marriage record for comparison: https://tinyurl.com/45vceyvn

Cumbria is a relatively new county, and was designated as such in 1974. It was formed from portions of the counties of Cumberland, Westmorland, Lancashire North and a part of Yorkshire. Barrow in Furness, when George Rodger had married in 1872, was in Lancashire, West Ridings.

See the Wikipedia article at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borough_of_Barrow-in-Furness

I believe George Rodger and Maria Frederica Josephine Lloyd are your direct ancestors, as in your message to Ireland Reaching Out, your handle is “peterrodger.”

I looked for civil registration birth records for any children of George and Frederica Rodger at the irishgenealogy.ie website, but found none. I also looked for the baptism records of the children in Dublin at irishgenealogy.ie, but again, without results.

Knowing that George Rodger’s residence was Barrow in Furness, according to his marriage record, I looked for the civil registration birth indexes of his and Frederica’s children in the Barrow in Furness area of Lancashire.

To do this I went to the HM Passport Office/General Register Office website at: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp

There, I uncovered the civil registration birth indexes for five of the Rodger children, though the indexes do not provide the first names of the parents.

The children, in order of birth were:

George Frederick Rodger, 1875
Ernest Frank Rodger, 1878
Frederica Violet Rodger, 1881
Patricia Lloyd Rodger, 1883
Herbert Percival Rodger, 1885
____

George’s 1875 birth index shows his birth was recorded in the Ulverston Registration District, but the birth of his four younger siblings were all recorded in the Barrow in Furness Registration District.

A Google Map shows that Ulverston is 10 miles northeast of Barrow in Furness: https://tinyurl.com/2xmdrkxp

The birth indexes for the five Rodger children are below. Each shows the maiden name of the children’s mother is Lloyd:

Name: RODGER, GEORGE FREDERICK
Mother's Maiden Surname: LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in ULVERSTON
Volume 08E, Page 773
____

Name: RODGER, ERNEST FRANK
Mother's Maiden Surname: LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1878 D Quarter in BARROW IN FURNESS
Volume 08E, Page 860
____

Name: RODGER, FREDERICA VIOLET
Mother's Maiden Surname: LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS
Volume 08E, Page 857
____

Name: RODGER, PATRICIA LLOYD
Mother's Maiden Surname: LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in BARROW IN FURNESS
Volume 08E, Page 861
____

Name: RODGER, HERBERT PERCIVAL
Mother's Maiden Surname: LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in BARROW-IN-FURNESS
Volume 08E, Page 836
____

Copies of the original birth records can be ordered online from the HM Passport Office/General Register Office website. Copies of the birth certificate are £11.00 each when you provide the GRO reference. For example, the GRO reference information pertaining to Herbert Percival Rodger, is the June Quarter of 1885, Barrow in Furness Registration District, Volume 08E, Page 836.

For more information go to: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/faq.asp

I next found the baptism record for Herbert Percival Rodger at the ancestry.com collection, “London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1923.”

Earlier you saw that his birth was recorded in the Barrow in Furness Registration District in the June quarter of 1885, but his baptism took place on December 4, 1898, in the Westminster, St John the Evangelist Church of England, Killburn.

In the left margin of Herbert’s baptism entry is the notation, “10 April 1885,” which would have been his date of birth.

In the Church of England, people were not always baptized as soon as possible after they were born, like Catholics traditionally were.

The full address of the parents in Herbert’s baptism record is 249 Elgin Avenue. The occupation of Herbert’s father George was “Engineer.” The maiden name of Herbert’s mother, Frederica Josephine, is not recorded.

The first name of the clergyman who baptized Herbert is not clear, but his last name was Moore.

The baptism register is attached to this reply. Herbert’s baptism is on Page 81, 4th entry down the right-hand page.

The following link will bring you to a Google Map of Elgin Avenue and St. John the Evangelist Church in Kilburn: https://tinyurl.com/vc52xhk6

The next link takes you to a Google Street View of Elgin Avenue, Kilburn: https://tinyurl.com/mthdtmpd

For a Google Street View of the St. John the Evangelist Church, see: https://tinyurl.com/3s735c88

THE 1881 ENGLAND AND WALES CENSUS

Still at ancestry.com I looked for the Rodger family in the 1881 census of England, which was taken on 3 April of that year. I found 37 year old George Rodger, his 37 year old wife Frederica M.J. Rodger, and two of their children, 5 year old George F. and 2 year old Ernest F. Rodger living in a street address of 14 Storey Square, Barrow in Furness. George’s occupation is “Mechanical Engineer at Ship Yard. His place of birth was Scotland. No occupation is recorded for Frederica. She was born in “India Bengal Brit Subj.”

Their sons George and Ernst were born in Barrow, Lancashire.

Also in the household are two servants, 23 year old Rebecca P. Patchell, employed as a “Nurse.” She was born in Ireland. The other servant is 22 year old Annette J. Bryne, a “Cook” also born in Ireland.

The 1881 census is attached to this reply. The Rodger family begins at Schedule Number 356.

THE 1891 ENGLAND AND WALES CENSUS

Going to the 1891 census at ancestry.com, Frederica is not in the household with her husband and two of their children. The census shows that 47 year old George Rodger, his 12 year old son Ernest F., and 8 year old daughter Patricia L. Rodger, were living in Brightside Bierlow, Yorkshire, England. The census shows that George Rodger is married and the manager of a steel foundry. He was born in Greenock, Scotland. His children Ernest and Patricia are scholars and born in Barrow in Furness, Lancashire. Also in the household is a servant, 19 year old Emily Gleadhill, born in Sheffield, Yorkshire. The household begins at schedule number 272 in the census, which is attached to this reply.

I looked for,but didn’t locate Frederica Rodger in the 1891 census of England.

THE 1901 ENGLAND AND WALES CENSUS

Frederica and George Rodger are not in the 1901 census together either.

Frederica M.J. Rodger is shown to be 58 years old and “living on own means,” in an address of Celvin Grove, Cyffic Centre, Carmarthenshire, Wales. Her birthplace was India. In the household with her are her sons, 25 year old George F.P. Rodger, and 15 year old Herbert P. Rodger, both who were born in Barrow in Furness. The census also shows that George is “Lame.” The census is attached to this reply. The Rodger family household begins at schedule number 79 in the census.

The 1901 census shows that 57 yar old George Rodger and his 16 year old daughter Patricia L. are living in an address of 34 Oak Hill Road, Sheffield, Yorkshire. George’s occupation is “Mechanical Engineer Steel Works.” He was born in Scotland. His daughter Patricia is employed as a school teacher. In the household with them are 42 year old Mary E. Stewart, a domestic housekeeper born in Amble, Northumberland. Also in the household is 20 year old Beatrice Wilson, a general domestic servant born in Sheffield, Yorkshire. George Rodger’s household is the first one recorded in the census page. See the attachment.

Also attached is map from Mapcarta, showing that Cyffic, Wales, is 229 miles southwest of Sheffield, Yorkshire.

THE 1911 ENGLAND AND WALES CENSUS

The 1911 census shows that Frederica Rodger has moved from Wales to 21 Shipka Road, Balham SW, London. In reference to how many people are in the household with her, she states, “Only Myself the Occupier.”

No age is recorded for her, but she is listed as a “Widow,” of “Private Means.” The census does not record that she had any children, but we know that she and George had four children since their marriage in 1872. Her birthplace was “India Bengal Resident, ? Deesa East Indies.” Earlier, in her FamilySearch birth index, you saw that Frederica was born in Deesa, India.

The 1911 census further shows that no one else is in the household with her. At the bottom of the census page you’ll see Frederica’s signature, and also see that she occupied 6 rooms in her dwelling.

The 1911 census is attached to this reply.

A Google Map shows that Shipka Road is 6.7 miles south of London City Centre: https://tinyurl.com/49hrp2d2

Here is a Google Street View of Shipka Road, London: https://tinyurl.com/2fykms6v

The question is, why didn’t Frederica state she had four children born to her in the 1911 census? Peter, has any information come down through family stories that Frederica may have been estranged from her husband and children?

The 1911 census shows that the residence of George Rodger is still 34 Oak Hill Road, Sheffield, Yorkshire. But whereas George’s wife Frederica was recorded as a widow, with no children, the 1911 census for George shows he was married and had 4 children, with 4 children still alive, and none who had died. But, his marital status and number of children is crossed through with black and red ink. The number of years he was married, the number of children born, and the number of children still living however, may have been written in error, not because they weren’t true, but because these questions pertain only to married women in the household, according to the census heading above columns 6, 7, and 8.

George’s occupation is “Consulting Engineer” for “Wm Jessop & Sons Ltd.” The census shows he was a “Worker,” rather than the owner of the company, or working on his own account. His place of birth was Greenock, Renfrewshire, which is in Scotland. Two of his children, 28 year old Violet Frederica, and 27 year old Patricia Lloyd Order are in the household with him. They are both single and were born in Barrow in Furness. Violet was a “Cooking Instructress” for an “Education Committee,” and Patricia an “Elementary Teacher.”

Also the household are 52 year old Mary Elizabeth Stewart, a single “House Keeper” who was born in Amble, Northumberland, and 16 year old Edith Wickman, a domestic “House Maid” with no place of birth recorded.

At the bottom of the census you’ll see George’s signature and that his dwelling had Nine rooms.

According to the National Archives in Kew, Surrey, near London, the Sheffield City Archives hold the records of the William Jessop & Sons Ltd. This company was also known as the Brightside Steel Works of Sheffield. For more information go to the National Archives link at: https://tinyurl.com/ym557ncu

If interested in further research, you can contact the Sheffield City Archives and Local Studies Library for information on records pertaining to the William Jessop & Sons Ltd./ Brightside Steel Works of Sheffield. Go to: https://tinyurl.com/yp7jmry8

For more information about the Sheffield Steel Industry, go to the Wikipedia link at: http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/SheffieldSteelWorks.html

DEATH INDEX FOR FREDERICA MARIA JOSEPHINE RODGER

Earlier in this research I had found the death index for Frederica Maria Josephine Rodger at the HM Passport/GRO website.

Her death was recorded in the Camberwell (London) Registration District in the June quarter of 1913. Her death record is found in Volume 01D, Page 800 of the GRO registers.

Name: RODGER, FREDERICA MARIA JOSEPHINE
Age at Death (in years): 66
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in CAMBERWELL
Volume 01D, Page 800
____

More information about the Camberwell Registration District can be found at the ukbmd.org.uk link at: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/camberwell.html

You can order details about Frederica’s burial at the pay-per-view website, deceasedonline.com website. For a Burial Register summary and more details, go to: https://tinyurl.com/2p8t4ca2

The Summary at the website link shows that Frederica was buried on 30 April 1913.

DEATH INDEX FOR GEORGE RODGER

I uncovered what I believe to be the GRO death index for George Rodger. He was 75 years old when he died. His death was recorded in the Ecclesall Bierlow Registration District (West Yorkshire), in the June quarter of 1919. His death record can be found in Volume 09C, Page 395:

Name: RODGER, GEORGE
Age at Death (in years): 75
GRO Reference: 1919 J Quarter in ECCLESALL BIERLOW
Volume 09C, Page 395
____

The following ukbmd link shows that Sheffield was a Civil Parish, among other civil parishes, located within the Eccelsaw Bierlow Civil Registration District: https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/ecclesall%20bierlow.html

Peter, if you eventually access the St. Finbar Church of Ireland parish registers and find the baptism record for Maria Louisa Nesbitt, and perhaps the baptisms of her siblings and marriage of her parents, could you please send a follow-up reply with the information you found?

There are 14 attachments with this reply. In the past several weeks however, the Ireland Reaching Out website has had problems with attachments coming through with replies. I’ll find out if the attachments came through after posting this reply, but if they don’t, I’ll have to send them at a future date.

With Kind Regards,

Dave Boylan

N.B. The 1911 census returns for George Rodger and Frederica Rodger were too large to send as attchments.

SOURCES

Shane Wilson's reply of 17 October 2022
National Archives of Ireland: Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds Indexes, 1623 – 1866
genealogy.com
FamilySearch: India Births and Baptisms, 1786-1947
ancstry.com: Geneanet Community Trees Index
ancstry.com: Ireland, Indexes to Wills, Probate Administration, Marriage Bonds and Licences, 1591-1866
FamilySearch: England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005
FamilySearch: “British Newspaper Archive, Family Notices
https://www.stgeorgeshanoversquare.org/history.html
Google Maps
Google Street Views
Ask About Ireland website: Griffiths Valuation
IreAtlas Townland Data Base
Library Ireland website: John O’Hart’s, “Irish Pedigrees; or the Origin and Stem of the Irish Nation,” Volume 2, 5th edition
free irishgenealogy.ie
National Archives of Ireland: 1901 and 1911 Ireland Census
ancestry.com: “UK, Officer Service Records, 1764-1932
ancestry.com: India, Select Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948
Wikipedia
HM Passport Office/General Register Office:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/menu.asp
ancestry.com: London, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1923
Ancestry.com: England and Wales Census
nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sheffield City Archives and Local Studies Library
http://www.sheffieldindexers.com/SheffieldSteelWorks.html
ukbmd.org.uk
deceasedonline.com

Shane & Dave,
Thankyou so much for this wealth of information. I've skimmed through it and am most impressed by the amount of detail. I will explore it in detail over the next few days and reply to you.
Thanks

Peter