Searching for Bellairs!

Debbie:

There were no Bellair records in the Griffiths Valuation survey in the mid-19th for all of Ireland. Same for the 1901 census, no Bellairs in the entire country. Possibly the name was Baylor or Bowler in Ireland?

Roger McDonnell

Hi Roger,

Thank you for your response and for checking the above records.

I have found a Merchant Navy disharge card from 1922 from the findmypast.co.uk website and it shows that my great grandfather was born on 27 April 1884 in Cork, Ireland. I have checked a few other sites but just can't seem to locate him anywhere. His name was clearly showing John Bellair on the card.

If you could provide any advice on further routes I can explore to find his birth certificate, I would be grateful!

Many thanks!

Debbie

Debbie:

I went back to the two sites that I use  with no success.  www.familysearch.org and www.findmypast.ie

Roger

(I hope this doesn't duplicate.  I tried to leave this message a few minutes ago, but I don't see that it took, so I am trying again.)

Debbie, in case you didn't have it already, I can email you the 1911 England census showing that John Bellair was living in Kirkdale, Lancashire.  He was 27 (born 1884) in Cork, Ireland and was a Merchant Seaman.  So it seems there are 2 documents to confirm his name/age/birth location.

However, I wasn't able to find his birth in 1884 Cork, nor find any Bellairs in Cork using the same sites that Roger tried, as well as, Ancestry.com, and I even tried to misspell the last name.  If I come across anything, I will send notice.

The 1911 census shows: Annie, wife, age 29, born in Liverpool (as are the 3 following kids); Marion, age 4; Mary age 2; Percival age one month (as of the census date of April 2, 1911); and Jane Thomas, mother-in-law, age 68 and a widow who had 2 kids (both living at the time of the census - so Annie has a sibling).

Jane's birth location is VERY hard to read.  It almost looks like "Flint", and her nationality was "Flintsher".  What was odd was that "Wales" was written first, then crossed out.  (However, I also just hunted, and found, the 1901 census, showing Jane was born in Holywell, Flintshire, Wales.  She was the head of the house in 1901, and has 2 daughters, Sarah age 24 and born in Liverpool; and Annie, age 18 born in Liverpool.  They are living in Kirkdale, Lancashire.)

I also found the 1891 census for Annie:  She was born in Everton, Liverpool (and Sarah was born there, too).  Her mom, Jane and her father, Willaim Thomas were both born in Wales.  The family is living in Kirkdale.

Do you have a copy of John and Annie's original marriage certificate, or a transcribed record?  (One with their signatures, or one that is TYPED on a website?)  I'd be interested where you found the record, because if you don't have the original, we might be able to find it.  They often had the names of the parents, and that might help w/ John's family.  Maybe he was born in Cork, but the family went to England soon after?  We could look for the parents, IF they are listed on the original marriage certificate.

If he is the same John Bellair that died in 1960, I found his death index on Ancestry.com website:  Died 1960, in Liverpool South, listed in volume 10d, page 672. He was 75 years old at death (that puts his birth year at either 1885, or 1886 if he didn't have his birthday yet at time of death.)  Since Annie was a few years older than him, they might have stretched his age a little to ease any discompfort that Annie might have felt at being older.  (That was a big issue with people "back then".)  So, you might find out more by finding his death record in Liverpool in that volume.  HOWEVER, that death was recorded in Jan, Feb or Mar of 1960, and he very well might have died in the latter part of 1959, which then puts his birth year at 1884 (if he died in Nov-Dec 1959, and was 75, and his birth month was April, then it truly was 1884.)

I also found an Annie Bellair that died in Jan, Feb or Mar 1954 (or she might have died in Nov-Dec of 1953, and it wasn't reported until 1st quarter of 1954).  In Liverpool South, volume 10d, page 718.

As I'm typing this, I keep thinking of ideas, and I just found (I believe) another document for him.  In 1902 there is a "J. Bellair", age 17 (born 1885), born in Cork.  He was a crew member for the ship "Afric" that sailed to Australia from Liverpool.  Another ship manifest shows that a John Bellair, Irish, age 38 (born 1884) was working on the ship "Empress of Brittian", that left Liverpool in Jan 1922, arriving in New York in Feb 1922.  And one more!  He was working on the ship "Medic" sailing from Liverpool to Sydney, Australia in Jan 1920 (age 35, born in Cork).

Another thought moves to religion... what was John?  It could help determine where to look for church records for his birth/baptism, since we can't find him in the CIVIL records for Cork in 1884.

My last comment would be to re-think Roger's question about the spelling of the name while he was in Ireland.  He might have changed it slightly (or it WAS changed by some clerk somewhere in England), and he never corrected it back to his original spelling (which wasn't uncommon).

So, since you live in Liverpool, the best place for you to check quickly would be the clerks office where death records are kept.  Look for the man who died in 1959/1960 and see if his death record shows his parents and/or any other clues.  Look in "Liverpool South" for cemeteries that he might be in, to verify his birth/death dates, and if the man who died in 1959/1960 was buried w/ his wife, Annie.

I hope this helps somehow, even though we haven't pinned him down to a townland in Cork!

Mary Van Dyke (email: Mary@FindingGrandpa.com)

Dear Mary,

I can't tell you how grateful I am for this information. I am overwhelmed by how much effort you have put into finding these facts and appreciate it so much! I had found details about John Bellair sailing on the Empress of Britain but did not know about the Medic! Your comment re Johns possible true age is interesting too- it goes to show how times have changed and how judgemental society was back in those days!

I am going to take your advice and search for the death record for my next step. I hope I can in time find the link to my Irish Ancestry!

Many thanks and best wishes!

Debbie

Dear Mary,

I can't tell you how grateful I am for this information. I am overwhelmed by how much effort you have put into finding these facts and appreciate it so much! I had found details about John Bellair sailing on the Empress of Britain but did not know about the Medic! Your comment re Johns possible true age is interesting too- it goes to show how times have changed and how judgemental society was back in those days!

I am going to take your advice and search for the death record for my next step. I hope I can in time find the link to my Irish Ancestry!

Many thanks and best wishes!

Debbie

Debbie, please let me know if you want me to email you the copies of the records that I've found.

This didn't take very long for me, and you're VERY welcome!

Mary@FindingGrandpa.com