Timothy McCarthy & Jane Mahoney of Cork

Hi,
Are you sure the first name was Jane?

On rootsireland, I found a Timothy McCarthy and Mary Mahony married in the RC parish of Cloyne, Co. Cork, on 26-Feb-1805. Witnesses: Margaret Cahill and Mary Cahill. The couple had at least two children, Michael and Bridget.
.
You might search further at irishgenealogy.ie's church records for Cork.

Hi, am still exploring my Cork ancestors, but Maguire is my current focus.

Does "Linda Maguire Maitland", mean that Linda Maguire is from Maitland NSW, Australia?
 

I have a Timothy McCarthy who married Kate Ann North in England Jul 1894

A Timothy McCarthy and Mary Mahoney married on March 3, 1821. One record I have shows "Ireland". The Catholic Parish record shows no location but does show the date. 
 

Name
Timothy McCarthy
Gender
Male
Marriage Date
3 Mar 1821
Marriage Location
Ireland, Ireland
Wife
Mary Mahoney
Published under the National Library of Ireland's Terms of
Use of Material made available on registers.nli.ie.
Source Citationlreland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915
Source Information: Ancestry.com Ireland, Catholic Parish
Registers, 1655-1915 Provo, UT, USA Ancestry.com Operations,

hello Linda

I had a quick look and the only pair to come near matching your ancestors were a Timthy McCarthy who married a mary mahony in feb 1805 and they had a son Michael in Dec 1805.Were married in Cloyne parish and michael was born in Aghada parishsome 20 miles away.

records in rural parishes in ireland are very scarce before about 1830 as catholic emancipation was achieved only in 1829.any idea when and where the children were born ? If they emigrated in the early 1820's then perhaps only Michael was born in Ireland.Ido feel that this couple are not your ancestors .If you have more inf i can look again

Regards

Donie

Hi Linda:  

Frank and Bill Fahy are the West Cork experts here who have done amazing work with the registers in that area..  I say this as someone who also has McCarthy ancestors along with some of the surnam3es that you mentioned, and who is aware that some of their family may have also emigrated to Canada as well as Australia.  I"m going to copy Frank and Bill with this post and hopefully they wil reply.  

In the meantime, I would recommend that you search the Irish Genealogy website and use the CHURCH records tab which lists the parishes in West Cork and Kerry (as well as other counties).  

For ease of reference, the link is here:  https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/ 

The very best of luck with your search!  

All the best,  

Jane 

Having searched  the names of Timothy McCarthy & Mary Mahon(e)y in the years 1800 - 1825, there was only one marriage turned up in the Diocese of Cork & Ross. 

• Marriage of TIMOTHY MCCARTHY of N/R and MARY MAHONY of GALLOWS GREEN

  on 8 January 1815

  Parish/Church/Congregation - CORK - SOUTH PARISH

  Area - CORK & ROSS (RC)

   

  The date is probably too late for the Timothy & Mary of the query. 

   

  I then searched for Baptisms of children of any Timothy McCarthy & Mary Mahon(e)y with the following results

  John McCarthy Dec 12 1815 in Cork South Parish.

  Patrick McCarthy Feb 16 1816 in Bandon. This could not be the the same parents as John given the dates of Birth/Baptism and also more than twenty miles away.

  Honora Mccarthy Sep 24 1819 Bandon

  Denis McCarthy May 20 1824  Bandon

  The last three were all born of the same Timothy McCarthy & Mary Mahon(e)y in the Bandon area of County Cork and given that one name at least does not tally with the list of names of children given in the query, it is unlikely that this is the correct family being sought.

  I will continue to look but records so early in the 1800s are very few and with many ommissions.

   

  Frank Fahy

  West Cork

   

   

"I will continue to look but records so early in the 1800s are very few and with many ommissions.(sic)"

Other than the misspelling of omissions, this makes no sense.

Why continue to look, knowing that records are 'very few'?

If records are 'very few', how can anyone state 'with many omissions'?

Thank you so much to those who looked them up in the records.  Several people asked if I'm sure her name is Jane.  In the records in Quebec (census and burial), she was always called Jane.   The family left Ireland in about 1820 with grown children.  I should have included birthdates in my original message so I'll add them now. 

Thank you again,

Linda Maguire Maitland

Vancouver, Canada

Hi Linda:  

I'm glad to hear that you have been helped as this is what we do as volunteers in IrelandXO.  If you need any further information or have any further questions, please feel free to add them here to this thread.

As to Collins go-lightly comment, it is always worth searching due to name variants, transcription errors and new information that may come to hand.;  Frank Fahy and his brother Bill are fantastic volunteers for the West Cork area, but also very happy to assist and help anyone with West Cork roots.   They have done huge work with sharing information about West Cork with the global West Cork diaspora.  Frank has personally assisted me with my own West Cork roots and found information that was not available anywhere else.  

 All the best,  

Jane

Hi Jane,

I read your qualification "it is always worth searching due to name variants, transcription errors and new information that may come to hand" and wonder what the source of *new* information could be?  

It is widely known that the NLI gathered all extant (RC) registers for all Parishes of every Diocese, and these were duly scanned in the 1950s and 1960s and later presented online with free access for researchers and readers via the Internet.

As stated by the experts at National Library of Ireland, these records are "for the majority of Irish people who lived during the 18th and 19th centuries, the only record of their existence."  Ref: https://www.nli.ie/en/parish-register.aspx

As such, these NLI films fall under the category of Primary Records which always rank highest for validity due to their originality.

As the registers were maintained by different priests, clerics or clerk, the scripting of a name, surname was not always consistent. Example: a cleric or clerk could record Maguire, while another could write McGuire. Hence dealing with name variants is standard procedure, especially for Irish records.

The variations of surnames from the same family group are astounding:  Nulty, Anulty, McNulty, MacAnulty, McAnulty .. and so on are considered the same surname, as the written version depends on the scribe. Another that comes to mind is Laverty and Lafferty.

Being mindful of spelling variation is vital when reading through the NLI films or other records. Relying on transriptions, instead of reading the orginal (primary) documents and keeping eyes and ears open, is counterproductive. The chance of missing a relevant record or clue, is increased by reliance on secondary and derived datasets. Always use primary (original) data FIRST. No. 1 rule of Research, in any field: genealogy, forensic and so on.

As for 'new information that may come to hand', this is improbable. Old newspapers have been scanned, parish the ceremonies/rituals of Baptism, Burial are usually recorded once per person, while Marriage is nil, once, twice ....

Useful primary 'new information', could be a Family Bible, a Marriage Contract, a Will or unofficial communication or written note/postcard/burial prayer sheet, retained in a descendant's papers. Such privately held records rarely appear in Public sources, hence the importance of DNA, so that people can combine their research efforts and share private records.

The second research principle is locating independent supporting evidence for 'information that was not available anywhere else'.

Commonsense validation procedure for "information not available anywhere else" entails solid verification.

(1) What is the source? Public or private. 

(2) What supporting documentation is available?

(3) Is this 'support' independently sourced,  or merely a re-write of the *new* find?

Unfortunately 'Family History Research', has become a commercial industry, with many enthusiasts buzzing around like bees at a honey pot, waiting for something 'new' to turn up!   As a result, the principles of research methodology are swept aside, ignored or dismissed in the hope of finding the 'right record', from *new* releases by Company $XYZ. 

Research methods are important in Science, Criminal Law and Genealogy (aka Family History).  The practice of research methods is really commonsense: Fnd a record, validate, verify by crossreference to primary records before locking in.

Hi Linda:

I'm glad that you have found some useful information.  If you like, you are welcome to ssend further information to me at:  tulla@irelandxo.com and I can put you in contact with one of our Cork volunteers.  Let me know if that suits you.

All the best,

Jane 

Linds

The NLI registers of births and marriages are not complete as some pages in the parish registeries were not digitised.There was also a problem where there were more than one church in a parish as the baptisms in the chapel one sometimes did not get into the main parish register so these records are not definitive. There is a project there for parish councils or some heritage societies to sort out these omissions,

 having emigrated in 1820  then most of the family were born in Ireland

I will give you the contact details for the Diocese of Cloyne records centre who for a fee will search all parish records in the diocese .You will find details in the Mallow Heitage Centre.website. There fees are about 50-100 euro depending on whether it is an individual or a family you are trying to trace.They will send you an application form.

Best of luck.Donie

Regards. Donie

While this website is designed and was created to help people find their ancestors and the volunteers have spent their time and energies and public spirit working to help these people for many years past, why do people like Collins-Go-Lightly have to be accomodated when their only purpose seems to be to criticise the efforts of the volunteers and using inaccurate and misleading information in doing so?  As per the following,

"it is widely known that the NLI ga"Ithered all extant (RC) registers for all Parishes of every Diocese, and these were duly scanned in the 1950s and 1960s and later presented online with free access for researchers and readers via the Internet."

Collins-go lightly, who doesn;t seem to have the courage or honesty to publish their proper name and who chides people on how they try to help or for what he/she believes is incorrect information comes out with totally inaccurate information to criticise  such as saying that all RC Registers were "scanned "  in the 50s & 60s when in fact no scanning existed in the 50s & 60s and the Registers were microfilmed. Again, not all Registers were microfilmed then as per the following item from the NLI.

The NLI microfilmed registers from the majority of Catholic parishes in Ireland and Northern Ireland during the 1950s and 1960s. Digital images from these microfilms are now freely available on the website: Catholic Parish Registers at the NLI.

The Registers from many RC and other Parishes were not submitted to the NLI as those people responsible for them were afraid for their safety given the burning of records in the Four Courts in 1922.

Skibbereen, Rath & the Islands were one such instance of these records not being submitted and the writer transcribed these records (1814 - 1920) for the Parish in 2010  and he and his brother Bill subsequently indexed  all chronologically and alphabetically in Excel to help those with queries.

"New information" as critised/ridiculed by C-GO- L  is found on a frequent basis where in  Baptism, most of a family can be found  in the Baptismal Register, in one Parish, an odd one may be found in another town or city or Parish which was being visited when a child was born and was not in the best of health or in hospital and where was often the case, the parents took it to the nearest church for baptism.. In the case of marriage and the person with the query only knew the name of the Bride & Groom and for instance did not know the Parish of birth of the Bride, the difficulty could be to find the marriage due to the Bride being married in the Parish of her birth as per tradition. These bits of "new information" are not always visible at first glance but become apparent as other information becomes available through index entries or through another person seeing the information provided on this website and bringing "new Information" from their own familly or resources.

I could be using this time better helping people who need me rather than responding to C-Go-L  who seems to be reasonably well informed but could do better helping the people with queries rather than anonymously criticising people who do.

My apologies to the administrators of the website for using their so helpful facility so wastefully but felt the C-Go-Lightly spurious comments could not be passed without comment. .

Thanks for all you do Frank. Most appreciated.

Thanks Frank (and Bill) - I agree totally with Moylerine.