Michael and Alice McLaughlin /Lived in Londonderry, Banagher, Tirkeeran, Tamnagh

Judy,

In the 1831 census there were 2 McLaughlin households in Tamnagh. One headed by James which had 4 males & 3 females:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/Banagher/Tamlaght/7/

The second was headed by Jane who lived with 1 male, perhaps a widow and her son:

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1831/Londonderry/Tirkeeran/Banagher/Tamlaght/19/

Possibly either or both might be related to your family.

The tithe applotment records for 1828 don’t list a McLaughlin farm in the townland, so possibly they weren’t living there then, or perhaps if they did, they didn’t have a farm. (The tithes were a list of people with land, so labourers, servants etc weren’t listed).

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/banagher-parish.php

Dates of birth for Thomas and Bernard were 18.1.1864 and 5th Sep 1866 respectively. Their births are in the statutory records which started in 1864. Here’s Bernard:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_retur…

Michael died in 1898 aged 82:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1898/05840/4654032.pdf

The RC parish of Banagher only has records from 1851 onwards. Your family evidently married before that, and if that’s the parish where they married, no record is likely to exist. Likewise identifying their parents will be difficult though obviously Michael might be related to either of the 2 families in the 1831 census. No Walsh households in the parish of Banagher in the 1831 census so she may have come from a nearby parish, I have searched the on-line records but cannot locate a marriage for her.

Some probate abstracts for the family:

Probate of the Will of William McLaughlin late of Tamnagh, Co. Londonderry, Farmer, who died 29 March 1920, granted at Londonderry 28 April 1920 to William McGaughey, National School Teacher, and Patrick McLaughlin, Merchant. Effects: £156 12s 6d.

McLaughlin Michael of Tamnagh Park county Londonderry farmer died 7 April 1939 Probate Londonderry 12 April to Edward McLaughlin farmer. Effects £88 12s. 6d.

McLaughlin Edward of Tamnagh Park county Londonderry farmer died 10 June 1945 Probate Londonderry 1 August to Patrick McLaughlin farmer. Effects £121 18s. 10d.

McLaughlin John of Tamnagh Park county Londonderry retired farm labourer died 25 January 1945 Probate Londonderry 13 March to Patrick O'Donnell farmer. Effects £288 3s. 1d.

The above wills should be in PRONI in Belfast.

Thank you, Elway.  I appreciate you attention to my question and am grateful for your time.

Judy

Good Day, Elwyn.  The infomation that you provided has been very helpful.  We have continued to work with that information to get attitional information.  We were trying to secure infomation on one of the brothers of our ggrandparent, Michael McLaughlin, who may have gotten married and had three children.  Thomas b. 18 Fan 1864, was living with his mother, Alice (Walsh) McLaughlin, along with five other brothers in the 1901 Census (Tamagh).  The other brothers were still present at the dwelling in the 1911 Census but Thomas was not.  We found a Thomas McLaughlin living in Dreen (within a mile or two of his previous home) House #36, born around the same time as our Thomas, age 47 in the 1911 Census.  He was married to a Bridget and had three children.  We would like to confirm that both Thomas' are the same.  We have not been able to find information about his possible marriage.  If you can assist us that would be great.  If not, could you tell us how we might look further.

I am sorry, I said in the second sentence that we wanted infomration on one of Michael McLaughlin's brother.  That is incorrect.  Thomas is the son of Michael and Alice.

Thank you,

Judy

Judy,

The 1911 census tells us that Thomas & Bridget had been married 9 years, so around 1901/2. I looked up the birth of their daughter Bridget Jane and from that I know her mother was Bridget Lynch:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1908/01655/1660236.pdf

From that I found their marriage in 1901:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1902/10261/5734749.pdf

You will see that Thomas’s father was named as Michael (deceased), and that he was a farmer. So that all fits perfectly. Irish marriage certificates don’t contain mother’s names. However by 1901 most RC chapels did record the mothers names in their own marriage records. Those records are too recent to be on-line (ie within the past 100 years) but if you contact the parish office (Claudy chapel) with a copy of the civil certificate, they may be able to tell you whether the mother was Alice McLaughlin nee Walsh.

The marriage certificate gives Thomas’s address as Upper Dreen, and that was just 4 weeks after the 1901 census., when he was in Tamlagh. I checked the 1901 census for Dreen and there’s no adult Thomas McLoughlin there then, so clearly he must just have arrived.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Londonderry/Banagher/Dreen/

The Valuation Revision books on the PRONI website show that the Dreen farm was acquired by Michael McLoughlin in 1885 (it was plot 31 a 29 acre farm). The Griffiths clerks noted that Thomas had taken over the farm in 1900, presumably following his father’s death in 1898.  So it looks to me as though Michael had more than 1 farm and this second one ended up in Thomas’s hands. I did look at the statutory deaths to see if there was a second Michael McLaughlin who died in Dreen around 1895 – 1901 but there wasn’t so I am fairly sure it is the same man as lived in Tamnagh.  But the chapel records may confirm that for you.

Thank you Elwyn.  My brother and I and spouses are hoping to get to Ireland in the Fall.  It would be great to have the opportunity to take in some of the old homestead.  

Judy

Judy,

Do you need directions on where the farms are/were? 

Elwyn,

My brother will be visiting the area of our McLaughlin family homestead on a tour in mid-June.  Thank you for all the information that you have provided.  I spoke to my brother today and we were wondering why we have not be able to locate our grandfather Patrick McLaughlin's information either for his birth or for his baptism.  We have been able to locate information for many of his siblings.  Again, Patrick was born in 1860, supposedly on March 17th; the family was living in Tamnagh, Banagher, Londonderry, Ireland at the time.  The family was Catholic and some of t he other children were baptised in the Diocese of Derry.  His parents were Michael McLaughlin and Alice Walsh.  Some guidance would be helpful.  

Thank you,

Judy Link Salvatore 

Judy,

According to the PRONI guide to church records, those for Banagher RC parish are incomplete. The guide says they cover baptisms for 1848 – 1878 and marriages 1857 – 1878, but that both sets are incomplete. Presumably parts have been lost or destroyed over the years. (Not uncommon).  Parishes generally only kept the one copy, so if that got damaged or lost, the impact was fairly serious. This seems the most likely explanation for not finding the records you mention.

Hello Elwyn, I am Jerry, Judy's younger brother.  My wife and I did visit your beautiful country for 19 days in mid-year 2022.  My wife and I spent four days in Dublin prior to a 14-day My Ireland Tour, which included N. Ireland.  

During our visit we went to St Andrews Catholic Church, Westland Row, next to Trinity College, where my paternal grandmother had her Baptism record from 1895.  Our maternal great grandfather Patrick was born in 1860 in Tamnagh, Banagher, Derry, Ireland.  His eldest brother was Denis, followed by Mick (Michael), followed then by his sister Mary born in 1851, after the Census, followed by Bridget.  No children between Bridget in 1853 to 1859 were born/survived birth.   Our great grandfather was then followed by James, John, Edward, Bernard and Thomas.

Mary married a James McLaughlin, which we did not expect, and she was widowed in 1897 with four children Annie, Patrick, Bernard and Michael.  They farmed in Tamnagh and were in the 1901 and 1911 Census living next to Mary's mother and her single brothers.  We cannot find any information on Bernard.  We know Annie and Paddie remained unmarried, and we know Michael married since we have correponded with our third cousin in Scotland.

Our great grandfather Patrick emigrated to Philadelphia, PA in 1888 with his brother Bernard.  Bernard married had one son, who died during the 1918 Spanish Flu at 24 years of age.  Patrick also lost an adult daughter to the Spanish Flu in 1918; she was a young mother and left two children.  Patrick and his wife had four children:  their son John died before his 7th birthday.  Our grandmother, Patrick's daughter,  lived to 74 and her elder brother lived to his late 70's; they have many descendants in the U.S.

Thomas, as you indicated, received the farm in Dreen after his father's death, and he did marry Bridget Lynch.  They had children Mary Alice, Michael and Bridget Jane.  We recently discovered that Mary Alice married a Mullan (Mullen) and emigrated first to Nova Scotia, then took a train to Philadelphia, PA.  She and her husband had a little girl Bridget in August 1922, which they left as an infant in Ireland when emigrating.  They had two children in the mid to late 1920's in Philadelphia.  Mary Alice's husband died leaving her a widow with two young children in the late 1920s.  Her Naturalization Papers, from the early 1930s, indcated she had a daughter Bridget in Ireland.  Alice died at 55 years of age in her home in the Germantown section of Philadelphia, PA..  We don't know what happened to Bridget Mullan, the daughter of Mary Alice MCLAUGHLIN Mullan (Mullen).

We have corresponded with another third cousin living in Scotland, who is descended from Thomas McLaughlin and Bridget LYNCH McLaughlin through their daughter Bridget Jane McLaughlin.  We don't know what happened to our great granduncle Thomas and his wife Bridget LYNCH McLaughlin nor what happened to their son Michael.

There is a "small world story" to tell:  We had an Ancestry DNA match with an individual in the U.S. that is descended from a County Derry family.  During correspondence we ultimately discovered that her grandfather, from County Derry, lived in a Philadelphia row home nearly directly across the street from us.

Elwyn, thank you for your invaluable assistance.

Jerry

Jerry,

Glad to have helped.

Can’t offer any information on Bernard. He was still at home in the 1911 census. No clues after that. Presumably he migrated like many others in the family. Hard to trace him without a clue or two.

Bridget Jane Mullan’s birth is on the GRONI website as being 4^th Sept 1922 at Dreen. Parents married 9^th June 1921 in Banagher chapel:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1921/09224/5337245a.pdf

Can’t throw any light on what became of Bridget after 1922.  Presumably brought up by relatives but there are no censuses or other sources open to the public that might easily tell me. If you think that she might still have been in Dreen in 1939, you could apply to PRONI for a Freedom of Information request to know who was living on the farm them, taken from the 1939 Register (a sort of census compiled because of the war). You can do that by e-mailing PRONI.

Regarding Michael McLaughlin s/o Thomas & Bridget, there’s a tree on Ancestry that says he died on 19.5.1978 in Kilmarnock, Scotland. (Link Salvatore tree). There’s an obituary that says he died as a result of an accident; he lived at 33 Witchknowe Rd, Kilmarnock and was the son of the late Mr & Mrs  Thomas McLaughlin and sister to Bridget (indicating she was still alive). You could obtain a copy of that death certificate from Scotlandspeople. I can see it in the indexes so it looks accurate.

The Valuation Revision records for Dreen (on the PRONI website) show Thomas still farming in Dreen in 1929. Possible death for him on 12^th Feb 1940 aged 80. Possible death for Bridget on 19.4.1947 aged 72. Both events registered in Londonderry. Neither is viewable on-line free. You have to pay to view to see if they are the right events (the names are fairly common and I have relied on ages to identify the most likely ones). You can view the original certificates on-line on the GRONI website, using the “search registrations” option. You will need to open an account and buy some credits. It costs £2.50 (sterling) to a view a certificate:

https://geni.nidirect.gov.uk

Elwyn, thank you very much for the information on Thomas McLaughlin and Bridget LYNCH McLaughlin.  Also I want to thank you for information on Bridget Jane Mullan's birth.  That is also included on the Tree you referred to along with the marriage of the Mullans (Mullen).  Also the Tree referenced was updated based upon the information we received from one of the third cousins in Scotland.

Your kind guidance, as well as from a woman on Ancestry who lives in the UK, on PRONI and GRONI, has me consistently referring to those sites for information.  For instance, one of the articles on Ireland XO on Irish naming conventions has us chasing a hypothesis that our 2nd grandfather Michael McLaughlin's father (our 3rd great grandfather) may have been named Denis (we went to the 1831 Census and found a Denis in Dreen -- known as Dreene in 1831) but we have also been looking at the Recording Districts in Donegal, Londonderry and Tyrone for Denis deaths and Denis marriages for potential grandchildren of any Denis McLaughlin's born during the early to late 1790 births (offset year of death using age to estimate births).

We are still looking for Alice Walsh's place of origin.  In one of the Irish Census reports she indicates she was born in County Derry.  We have read that in 1850 there were approximately 40 to 50 Walsh families in County Derry (most Walshes are from Roscommon).  Using the naming conventions we hypothesize that her father may have been Michael.  We have been searching for records on Bridget Walsh (marriages and births) since Biddie Walsh was listed as godparents to Michael and Alice's first children (either Denis or Mick).  We suspect Bridget may have been Alice's sister.

I have a user code on the Scotland site, but I want to become more familiar with the data available prior to spending on record requests to minimize false leads.  So your hints are appreciated.

Thank you for the quick follow-up and the hints you provided!

Jerry

Jerry,

Re Alice’s origins, as you say, the 1901 census tells us she was born in Co. Derry. She will have come from somewhere nearby. In the 1840s courting was done on foot. Farmers couldn’t be away from the farm too long, so you married someone who lived fairly close by, within walking distance. Often within a few miles. That said, there are no Walshes in Banagher parish in the 1831 census so possibly Alice came from a bit further away. Killelagh is not too far away for example.

There are 45 Walsh households in Co Derry in the 1831 census. Walsh is a pretty common surname in Ireland. I think it’s one of the top 5 or 6 most common names. (It’s a corruption of Welsh. Walshes originated in Wales and moved to Ireland around the time of the Norman conquest.).

McLaughlin is generally thought to be a gallowglass name, so they were mercenaries from the western isles of Scotland who were brought to Ireland in the 1300s and 1400s by the local chieftains and given land in return for their fighting skills. (The local tribes were always fighting each other so these skills were in great demand).

The 1831 census lists 5 McLaughlin households in Dreen – Denis, Michael, Owen, Thomas, & Daniel. 4 of them were farmers. One – Denis – was not.  The tithe applotment records list the other 4 – so they were farmers – but Denis isn’t in the tithes. So he was probably a labourer or tradesman.

http://www.irishgenealogyhub.com/derry/tithe-applotments/banagher-parish.php

Denis doesn’t appear in Griffiths Valuation of Dreen in 1858 so he had probably died. And if he died pre 1864 there will be no record.

In searching for records for Denis &  Alice, bear in mind that most RC parishes didn’t keep burial records and that few rural parishes have any baptism or marriage records before the 1820s (Banagher’s don’t start till 1848, for example).  So you may struggle to find anything. Most Irish research comes to a stop around 1800 due to the lack of records.

Re Michael McLaughlin’s death in 1978, on the Scotlandspeople site the GROS reference is Kilmarnock 666/321. Mother’s maiden name (mmn) appears in the index as Lynch which tells you it’s the right event. (There was another Michael McLaughlin who died in Kilmarnock that year aged 83. Mmn McLaughlin). 1978 is too recent to view the certificate on-line so you have to order one. Pay on-line and it’ll be posted out in a few days.

Michael may have left a will but it’s too recent to be on Scotlandspeople. Probably still held by the local Sheriff Court.

I did a newspaper search to see if there was any mention of his accident but did not find anything. Scotland doesn’t have inquests so there won’t be any coroner’s papers.